aliveagain
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posted March 07, 2010 11:45 AM
bent valves
The bike kept popping thru the intake whenever I started it.I did a compression test and #3 was only 190psi. I pulled the cover off and saw the cam cover bolts sticking up in the middle.There had to have been 6-7 loose and I'm talking 1/4".Weird!
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
  
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entropy
Moderator
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posted March 08, 2010 10:37 AM
cam cover bolts sticking up??????????????????????
YIKES!!!!!!
tq'd to 110"-lb when assembling??
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Stuart Racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
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posted March 08, 2010 12:38 PM
Cam CAP bolts?????
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krexken
Zone Head
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posted March 08, 2010 01:09 PM
Torque wrenches are for sissies that strip bolts out all the time.LOL
How did valves get bent?
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aliveagain
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posted March 08, 2010 01:20 PM
I don't know how but suspect cam timing changed or jumped when the cam cap loosened.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted March 08, 2010 05:01 PM
quote:
Torque wrenches are for sissies that strip bolts out all the time.LOL
How did valves get bent?[/quote
hey Ken, are you calling me a sissy?
'cause i am!
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aliveagain
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posted March 09, 2010 04:19 PM
OK,now I need the advice.I took the exhaust and radiator off so I can get a better look see with a feeler gage.#3 intake, I cannot get the .076mm under when I should have a minimum of .15mm clearance.My problem is the motor was built in 5/09 and only had 3 1/3 passes and maybe 60 miles on it since.Should I just reshim it to the correct clearance or are these valves toast.Would you guys pull the head?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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KZScott
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posted March 09, 2010 04:34 PM
first i would check to see if you spit a shim, maybe its wedged in at an angle taking up all the clearance
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted March 09, 2010 05:01 PM
When I found the cam cap loose,I pulled each bucket off one by one to check that.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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aliveagain
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posted March 09, 2010 05:06 PM
oops my bad! I double checked the book and I have good clearance with it turned another 360*.Looks like the head will have to come off anyway.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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KZScott
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posted March 09, 2010 05:39 PM
is this your big motor?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted March 09, 2010 06:11 PM
pete,
have you done a leakdown?
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted March 09, 2010 07:13 PM
I just don't have the stuff to do a leak down.Head is off but it may just be a blown gasket.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted March 09, 2010 07:15 PM
Head was lapped before install,what else can I do to stop the gasket leaks?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted March 09, 2010 07:42 PM
Pete, was the block lapped? Thats most likely the problem. The superbike mike block may be low between the cylinders.... Very common.
It can be lapped without pulling the block off if your carefull.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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aliveagain
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posted March 09, 2010 07:53 PM
You'ld have to ask Sherman about the cylinder. I'll be calling Billy tomorrow.Jim, would having that thick head gasket be a culprit?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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VincentHill
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posted March 10, 2010 10:22 AM
AA, "Only" 190 PSI?? That is Not a Low figure for a "Bad" Cylinder. 80 to 120 PSI is when I would be saying "Only". Also it is not what one figure is, but it is what the "DIFFERENCE" in pressure between all of the cylinders that really makes the difference.
I was looking at the dark spot between the cylinders where you have the leak. My question is, what stud Bolts are you using and what are you torque them to?
It looks like you will have to have your cyl and head cleaned up and maybe use a thicker base plate to adjust the Compression volume
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aliveagain
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posted March 10, 2010 12:14 PM
It started out all the cylinders were around 120 cold and I added oil to get 245,225,190,210.
i'm wondering if it blows by the rings cold that much,what good would a leak down test do.
As far as studs,they were from Ape and torqued to 42ft/lbs.Thinking about last May,I believe he said he didn't touch the cylinder because it was true.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted March 10, 2010 01:54 PM
shave head and block
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted March 10, 2010 06:39 PM
Now we started to get into the interesting stuff. I had asked if maybe the head gasket was too thick for this application and he started on squish effects on turbulence,at 040 it may not be enough.Also my riding style is rather sedate on the street,to not lug the motor or go wide open at too low of an rpm. Jim remembered how I over heated once when the fan motor wire broke off.that might have been the culprit too.It may be a while before I have money for a head gasket.Hey at least it wasn't bent valves.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted March 13, 2010 07:50 PM
Is the 42 ft/lbs the stock torque? Personally, I torque them big ol APE studs around 55 and haven't had any problems. The bigger the bolt, the more torque it takes to get the proper stretch. Personally, I'm not a big fan of studs unless there's some serious nitrous or boost in use or if its a busa.
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KZScott
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posted March 13, 2010 08:08 PM
manual says 43, I think I put my ape studs at around 50-55?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
aliveagain
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posted March 13, 2010 08:12 PM
quote:
Is the 42 ft/lbs the stock torque? Personally, I torque them big ol APE studs around 55 and haven't had any problems. The bigger the bolt, the more torque it takes to get the proper stretch. Personally, I'm not a big fan of studs unless there's some serious nitrous or boost in use or if its a busa.
Where did you get the 55# from? I was just reading off the spec sheet what it was.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted March 14, 2010 02:49 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 14 Mar 2010 10:56
After application of moly goo, I tq my APE studs to 48# .
3 stages: 20#, 35#, 48#
spec = DaveO told me to.
Like Cheese says above, skim block & head after an "upset"
I dress the block & head with 280 grit paper on a very flat steel block before every assembly, then into the dishwasher.
spec = DaveO told me to. 
(however, in my new house, wifey has already said "what belongs in the garage, stays in the garage  ; substitute parts washer for dishwasher)
Clean mating surfaces uber well with brake cleaner, let dry, wipe w/clean, no fiber paper towels.
spec = DaveO told me to.
put on new HG, careful that NO oil is on any part.
I've re-used HG's but @ $80, good insurance = new HG
used to have many headgasket issues, now even w/ CR=16:1+, no HG issues (knock on head)
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aliveagain
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posted March 14, 2010 05:40 AM
Billy had mentioned that the new trick people were starting to use was to spray a light coating of copper gasket spray in between the layers on the gasket.Any experience?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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