KZScott
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posted February 09, 2010 06:15 PM
 Edited By: KZScott on 10 Feb 2010 02:19
the 60 for the major stuff, like on the exhaust side where a good deal was removed to port match it. the rest was done with what you see(anywhere that was hit with 60 was finished with finer grit). the paper is flexable, but you have to watch the edge. no ball tips were used, would be too hard to control.
i did put a little polishing compound to the exh side, but not the in side. its very hard to notice a difference though
time spent, 20+ hrs. money spent, $40 including el cheapo dremmel knock off. 
i did a to scale drawing in a cad program of Jims porting(only in a straight line) and another with double the step over(half the time to machine) its really hard to see the ripples in Jims 
and zoomed in with black background to show port finish
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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Shane661
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posted February 09, 2010 06:15 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 10 Feb 2010 02:16
How about something like this for final finish?:
Those are 180 and 280 grit. Is that too fine once you get rid of the big stuff? Or about right?
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Shane661
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posted February 09, 2010 06:18 PM
quote:
i did a to scale drawing in a cad program of Jims porting(only in a straight line) and another with double the step over(half the time to machine) its really hard to see the ripples in Jims
Is there a special benefit to the step and the scallop? Does it enhance flow?
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KZScott
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posted February 09, 2010 06:27 PM
i believe that smaller step over= thinner boundary layer.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 09, 2010 07:35 PM
quote:
i believe that smaller step over= thinner boundary layer.
Yep the smoother the finish the thinner the layer of non moving air or "boundary layer".
Scott, that's a good drawing and explanation of what the scallop is. Thanks.
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Shane661
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posted February 15, 2010 08:44 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Feb 2010 16:45
I guess I still have a question about this scallop.
Why do you need it at all? You could finish the ports smoothly without a scallop, obviously, by using a different tool.
Although the scallops may increase surface area, you could accomplish equal or greater area without them.
Or is this required because of the way the machine works?
I guess I'm a bit confused about the benefit of the scallops.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 15, 2010 05:15 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 16 Feb 2010 01:19
Well, you cant mill something with a point and you cant mill a curved complex surface with the flat side of an end mill right. ???
So if you had to cut the inner surface of a complex shape that curves on all 3 axis what could you use besides a sphere?
Remember back in high school geometry and trig the term "surface normal"???
Well a sphere will always contact a surface with the contact point and center, being perpendicular to the surface.
This is how my 5 axis machine can cut a continuous surface where the surface is constantly changing the vector angle and yet keep the cut "surface normal" or perpendicular to the surface contact area without having to move any one of the 5 axis more than the axis limits of the machine.
In short you cheat by moving the contact area around on the ball cutter that is always surface normal on the ball.
They call this a lollipop cutter because it looks like a lollipop in shape.
of course the ball has to have a shank to control the ball with so you never have a usable full sphere. But you can do undercuts to a degree.
So, now you can see that because you have to use a ball and are using a ball and a ball is curved you cannot ever ever truly cut an exact flat surface.
So you always have a scallop.
I'm not sure exactly why you want to completely remove the scallop anyway. A scallop height less than .001" doesn't even make a lick of difference because the boundry layer is really a viscosity issue anyway. Right?
If we were drawing large volumes of a Bose Einstein Condensate threw the port then it would be significant. But then again it would all leak right threw the aluminum anyway because everyone knows you cant contain a BEC with anything made of atoms. Right?
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Shane661
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posted February 15, 2010 05:24 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 16 Feb 2010 01:58
quote:
I'm not sure exactly why you want to completely remove the scallop anyway. A scallop height less than .001" doesn't even make a lick of difference because the boundry layer is really a viscosity issue anyway. Right?
If we were drawing large volumes of a Bose Einstein Condensate threw the port then it would be significant. But then again it would all leak right threw the aluminum anyway because everyone knows you cant contain a BEC with anything made of atoms. Right?
I guess what I was getting at is that the scallop does not serve to improve performance, it is a byproduct of the cnc process.
Ideally you would want no scallop at all, but the minimum is the best.
I am trying to understand the process, and the reasons behind it. Forgive my ignorance.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 15, 2010 05:59 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 16 Feb 2010 02:00
Shane, look at the video on our web site of the machine and its movement. It might help.
I was just joking about the BEC in the above post. My dry sense of humor i guess.... 
Go to SFS Carbides web site and you can see the cutters.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Shane661
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posted February 15, 2010 06:02 PM
quote:
Shane, look at the video on our web site of the machine and its movement. It might help.
I was just joking about the BEC in the above post. My dry sense of humor i guess....
Go to SFS Carbides web site and you can see the cutters.
Ok, I'll check it out. Thanks!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 15, 2010 06:02 PM
Here, I just found a pic of the cutter head on there website.
http://www.sidewinderblade.com/smallcutter2.jpg
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Y2KZX12R
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2000redrocket
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posted February 15, 2010 06:17 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 16 Feb 2010 02:40
looks like one hell of a q tip? what speed rating?
y2k, did my check clear yet? jonesing to see a full engine bay
before the 3 year mark being empty.
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Shane661
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posted February 15, 2010 06:36 PM
Some light reading:
http://www.search.com/reference/Bose-Einstein_condensate
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 16, 2010 04:46 AM
quote:
looks like one hell of a q tip? what speed rating?
y2k, did my check clear yet? jonesing to see a full engine bay
before the 3 year mark being empty.
I'll ask Bill today. I've been out of the loop on that. Was in Indy.....
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 16, 2010 04:56 AM
quote:
Some light reading:
http://www.search.com/reference/Bose-Einstein_condensate
Its fun to try and imagine an application for a mixed BEC made from pure carbon and oxygen.
I'd imagine if ignited it would make a pretty good bang in the cylinder of an engine.
Shane, start working on a pair of direct injection BEC injectors. One for carbon and one for oxygen. 
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dubious
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posted February 27, 2010 08:48 AM
worth a bump.... I learned a few new thinks here. Thanks Jim.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
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posted February 27, 2010 08:51 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Feb 2010 16:55
quote:
worth a bump.... I learned a few new thinks here. Thanks Jim.
Hey, how about a little credit for the thread starter, picture taker, and primary question asker?
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dubious
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posted February 27, 2010 09:01 AM
Edited By: dubious on 27 Feb 2010 17:03
yes actually I am still reading, I want to thank everyone here for the great input.
Jim for the technical info, Carl for the eye opening idea's in methodology, Scott for his input, and Shane for asking the questions.
yes excellent pics and detail as usual Shane. Thanks
My head was already done by cooper last year, and so i have seen allot of what yoru talking about, but this is inspirational for me, and I could really use some of that right now.
I think once the turbo is running steady, I might build a NA stroker, the meticulous attention to details and tweaking really gets my interest, even more so than just cranking boost.
Its an art, IMO. a very interesting one.
One project at a time though, money has been tight, the turbo will have be put off for another month before I order it. 
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted February 27, 2010 09:04 AM
quote:
i get .002" increment shims from HotCams
I get .001" increment shims from MRCycles, Honda CRF 450 9.5mm shims (Thanks to Tim Chin for that tip)
i think in thousandths
OEM valve clearance spec int: 0.006" - 0.009"
OEM valve clearance spec exh: 0.009" - 0.012"
You could get a set of HotCams shims e.g. 250, 255, 260, 265, 270, etc
then fill it in with 252, 257, 262, 267, etc
I warn you, you can drop a ton of money getting yr shim collection to the point where you have enough sizes and depth to ea size that you can reliably shim to .008 for example.
awesome info! 
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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KZScott
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posted April 04, 2010 06:05 AM
Shane, got this pic while doing some extra chamber work on my head(never mind the aluminum dust). thought you might be interested
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted April 04, 2010 06:06 AM
What type of bolt is that holding the intake boots on? Is that a big Torx, or something else? I don't have anything in my toolbox that fits those bolts...
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ZRXDean
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posted April 04, 2010 06:16 AM
"Star" head, go to Sears. My manifolds have them too, along with my crankshaft. They are very resistant to striping, and are low profile.
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Shane661
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posted April 04, 2010 06:18 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 4 Apr 2010 14:22
quote:
"Star" head, go to Sears. My manifolds have them too, along with my crankshaft. They are very resistant to striping, and are low profile.
Hopefully very resistant to stripping, since I first tried an allen head.
I need some new glasses....
Curiously, Sears doesn't show any Craftsman Star Drive sockets...some 3rd party stuff, but no Craftsman...
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KZScott
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posted April 04, 2010 08:18 AM
thats torx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
very tough IF you use the proper size. get a full set that fit a ratchet
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Shane661
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posted April 04, 2010 08:22 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 4 Apr 2010 16:22
So, the "star drive" that Dean is referring to, and Torx, are the same thing?
I thought it may be a Torx, but had never encountered any that large.
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