entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 12:38 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 15 Dec 2009 08:40
cam lobe pix
backside of 443 intake cam lobe, #1 cyl
took alot of goofing around with lighting, positioning to get the marks to show up on photo; they cannot be felt w/fingernail.
(maybe my $50 camera has something to do it "level of difficulty" 
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KZScott
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posted December 15, 2009 01:45 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 15 Dec 2009 09:46
so this was used with busa buckets? is the base circle of the cam stock sized?
btw are you cheating on RP with Motul?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 01:56 AM
yup busa buckets, stock base circles, 70# seat pressure 12,900rpm
yup using motul. distinctive fluorescent green-chartreuse
When Doug Meyer says "jump"... (you know the rest )
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KZScott
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posted December 15, 2009 02:15 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 15 Dec 2009 10:17
how high.. er.. what weight? (wondering about zinc content?)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted December 15, 2009 02:30 AM
quote:
how high.. er.. what weight? (wondering about zinc content?)
Motul 300v racing, motorcycle 10W40 4T
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KZScott
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posted December 15, 2009 02:53 AM
thanks. Wolf reccommended Motul 300v 5w40
also mentioned that they take the sharp edge off of the bucket and it helps with wear on the bigger cams. (I asked for more details, waiting on a response  )
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ZRXDean
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posted December 15, 2009 04:52 AM
That is a mighty big cam sir. By showing the backside (may fav generally), I guess the front side is clean?
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Shane661
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posted December 15, 2009 05:04 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Dec 2009 13:08
Forgive my simplistic questions, but...
With the heavy springs is it possible that the damage happened at low rpm, where oil pressure is lowest? Is the spring pressure a recent change?
Just out of curiosity, where do you have your idle set?
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entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 05:26 AM
quote:
That is a mighty big cam sir. By showing the backside (may fav generally), I guess the front side is clean?
yup, front side is clean (and spring fresh!) as is the base circle.
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entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 05:29 AM
quote:
Forgive my simplistic questions, but...
With the heavy springs is it possible that the damage happened at low rpm, where oil pressure is lowest? Is the spring pressure a recent change?
Just out of curiosity, where do you have your idle set?
I have run 70#+ before, never got those marks.
My motors generally idle fine down to 1200 or so, but i prefer 2000-ish
hell anything is possible,
Dr (Spring Guru) Donn Rickard is "on the case", see what he says later today.
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dougmeyer
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posted December 15, 2009 11:58 AM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 15 Dec 2009 19:58
Oil pressure has no "bearing" on lobe/bucket/spring interface. Only oil flow matters (or lack thereof). Interestingly on a design with plain bearings, the low pressure is generally due to EXCESSIVE flow....(it's my flow vs pressure hangup. I can't help it). Suffice to say that as long as the buckets are "wet" at idle, it's not a concern.
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Shane661
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posted December 15, 2009 12:57 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Dec 2009 20:58
So, Doug, could you explain a little bit...
If you have less oil pressure, wouldn't that have an impact on volume / flow?
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tcchin
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posted December 15, 2009 01:31 PM
If the oil clearance between a plain bearing and its journal is too large, then there isn't sufficient restriction to allow oil pressure to develop. This permits oil to flow too freely across the face of the bearing instead of forming a hydrodynamic wedge between the bearing and the journal, as it should. Tappets are not lubricated by a pressurized source, and rely completely on boundary lubrication.
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Shane661
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posted December 15, 2009 01:39 PM
I thought I had read that heavy springs could lead to damage of the cams, especially at idle, due to the oil film being "wiped" away between the cam and tappet.
I guess that was an incorrect statement?
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Texas12R
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posted December 15, 2009 02:54 PM
would you suspect valve float....
forgive my ignorance
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tcchin
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posted December 15, 2009 05:42 PM
quote:
I thought I had read that heavy springs could lead to damage of the cams, especially at idle, due to the oil film being "wiped" away between the cam and tappet.
I guess that was an incorrect statement?
There are limits to everything. If you have sufficient bearing stresses between the cam lobes and the tappet, then no amount of oil can protect them. That's when you need to get into things like plating and coatings.
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KZScott
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posted December 15, 2009 06:35 PM
was this cam nitrided?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
osti33
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posted December 15, 2009 10:41 PM
Was it just on cylinder #1 or on all the lobes?
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entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 11:12 PM
quote:
was this cam nitrided?
i dunno.
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entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 11:16 PM
quote:
Was it just on cylinder #1 or on all the lobes?
#2 & #4 hole lobes had barely discernable marks, #3 hole had none i could see.
Interestingly the level of "marks" correlates to level of leakdown after dyno
50 - 15 - 3 - 15% (from memory, but close)
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entropy
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posted December 15, 2009 11:18 PM
quote:
would you suspect valve float....
forgive my ignorance
yup, float is the current thinking.
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Texas12R
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posted December 16, 2009 03:21 AM
I'll tell Santa you need Ti valves..... And a bucket of
100 dollar bills for the dyno....
by the way, I think last year, by this time you were on
build/ test # 30 something .... What # is the current
configuration
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Shane661
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posted December 16, 2009 06:58 AM
I find it very curious that all of the lobes do not have similar wear.
These are new cams, correct?
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entropy
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posted December 16, 2009 07:01 AM
quote:
I find it very curious that all of the lobes do not have similar wear.
These are new cams, correct?
me too i find it weird that not all lobes were inpacted similarly, but i find it doubly weirs that the spacing between the 2 arc-marks on lobe #1 & #2 seem to be identical.
Brand new cams.
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Shane661
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posted December 16, 2009 07:02 AM
So, I guess what I am getting at is that the hardness of the lobes may be suspect.
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