Pretty Fast
Expert Class
Posts: 116
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posted October 26, 2009 09:16 PM
Nitrous or 4 mill stroker
I currently have a ZX-14 with a 1417 (2mil over bore pistons). I'm looking to add more power/torque over the winter but I'm kinda at a dilemma with which way l should go. I'm can either spit the cases and tear it back down and add a 4 mil crank or either put a 30 shot on it. Financially I won't be able to do both. Thing is, I really hate to go back in the motor but at the same time I don't know a whole lot about nitrous. I need some good solid advice here to help me make a decision. Which way would you go, stroker or gas?
  
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shiphteey
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posted October 27, 2009 03:58 AM
Odd you're saying financially you won't be able to do both. One costs a few hundred bucks, the other a lot more!! I'd go spray, but I'm biased. Strokers don't seem to last long but the power is ALWAYS THERE, which is nice.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Pretty Fast
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posted October 27, 2009 06:04 AM
quote:
Odd you're saying financially you won't be able to do both. One costs a few hundred bucks, the other a lot more!! I'd go spray, but I'm biased. Strokers don't seem to last long but the power is ALWAYS THERE, which is nice.
A.
shiphteey, I checked with my builder on both mods, of course stroking it would be alot more indept, labor wise and would cost quite a bit more but the spray setup would be more than just a few hundred dollars. Heck, just the progressive box can run from $200 to as hi as $500 by itself, depending on which I choose to get. That doesn't include the rest of the kit, tuning and labor. U were saying that the stroker don't last as long. What type of issues cud I possibly run into with a stroker that keeps it from lasting?
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KINGKWIK
Expert Class
9.36@ 149.23
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posted October 27, 2009 06:40 AM
I think what Shiptneey was referring to was you mentioned a 30 shot.. You don't need a progressive controller for a 30. Launch, hit 2nd and spray away... So in that regard it world be cheap.... however it would depend on what your doing with it.. I assume that if your on this form then your gonna drag it....? If so, its nice to have the big consistant engine. Nos does require constant bottle pressure if your running a bracket bike b/c each run will give you less than the one before...
However strokers don't have the longevity of a stock engine......? Really up to you..
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Shane661
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posted October 27, 2009 06:45 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Oct 2009 14:54
In addition to any other hp-related stress, a stroker increases piston speed. Obviously this is more strain on the entire bottom end.
A nice 2 dial progressive dry nitrous system can be put together for well under $1000, for about the cost of a stroker crank alone.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted October 27, 2009 10:54 AM
Yes N2O is the way to go for cheap HP. I would think it would be real hard to blow your motor with a 30 shot if you had the right A/F.
Stroker is very expensive. Crank+Rods+bearings+head gasket+labor
N20 not very expensive. Bottle, Hose, 1 solenoid, hose, nozzel, jet, tune.
Check the for sale section on this board as well as SuzukiHayabusa.org, psycobike, LABusas,.....................
Most inportant thing for either is setup and tune! GoodLuck and keep us posted
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Pretty Fast
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posted October 27, 2009 06:47 PM
quote:
I think what Shiptneey was referring to was you mentioned a 30 shot.. You don't need a progressive controller for a 30. Launch, hit 2nd and spray away... So in that regard it world be cheap.... however it would depend on what your doing with it.. I assume that if your on this form then your gonna drag it....? If so, its nice to have the big consistant engine. Nos does require constant bottle pressure if your running a bracket bike b/c each run will give you less than the one before...
However strokers don't have the longevity of a stock engine......? Really up to you..
KINGKWIK, good info. I'm learning and I'm new to the Nitrous aspect of things. Excuse me for possibly asking a dumb question but what exactly is a bracket bike and how do u go about keeping constant bottle pressure?
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Pretty Fast
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posted October 27, 2009 06:53 PM
quote:
In addition to any other hp-related stress, a stroker increases piston speed. Obviously this is more strain on the entire bottom end.
A nice 2 dial progressive dry nitrous system can be put together for well under $1000, for about the cost of a stroker crank alone.
Shane, what you are saying in ref to the stroker is exactly what I've been told over and over. I agree with you here. This is what's leaning more towards the dry shot plus I really don't want to go back in the engine. As usual, u are very helpful and I appreciate that. Been looking at your threads and post for a good while. Thanks man!
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KZScott
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high on speed
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posted October 27, 2009 06:54 PM
non heads up racing
the problem with nitrous is the ease of swapping in bigger jets when you get bored. but yeah its great stuff!
bottle pressure is dependant on heat. check out a bottle heater
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Pretty Fast
Expert Class
Posts: 116
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posted October 27, 2009 06:57 PM
quote:
Yes N2O is the way to go for cheap HP. I would think it would be real hard to blow your motor with a 30 shot if you had the right A/F.
Stroker is very expensive. Crank+Rods+bearings+head gasket+labor
N20 not very expensive. Bottle, Hose, 1 solenoid, hose, nozzel, jet, tune.
Check the for sale section on this board as well as SuzukiHayabusa.org, psycobike, LABusas,.....................
Most inportant thing for either is setup and tune! GoodLuck and keep us posted
TRNorBRN6001, you're making sense here, definitely from an economic standpoint. I'm all about saving a buck. Now what would be the downside to the spray, besides having to fill the bottle from time to time and how hard is it on the head or the rest of the engine?
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted October 27, 2009 07:11 PM
when used properly, nitrous wont really hurt anything more than any other way of adding that much power to your motor. where most guys go wrong and have problems is when they want more power, put in bigger jets and dont have it setup toi handle it. IMO put a 50 shot on it and spray from 2nd gear. run good gas, run stock timing or 1 degree retarded and about 12.5:1 AFR
another thing to watch out for, only use nitrous in the upper rpm range. you are spraying a constant amount(unless using a controller) but the amount of nitrous a motor uses per combustion event varies with rpm. at low rpm each stroke will take in a lot of nitrous compared to a high rpm where it will only be able to use a little of that constant spray. say at 4000 rpm you start spraying 50 hp each cylinder gets X amount of nitrous but at 8000 rpm it only gets 0.5X amount. higher rpm is less stressful.
i have my rpm window switch set to come on above 7500 rpm if my bike is in second gear or higher and is WOT and it will shut off at 11500 rpm to avoid hitting the rev limiter with nitrous(another bad thing)
anyway of adding power will be more stressful on the motor, but if you only need that extra power every now and then, nitrous is a great way to do it. if you want the power all the time, go with a larger more efficient engine or forced induction
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted October 27, 2009 07:30 PM
I'd go for stroke. Course I woulda stroked it the first time but still if you can afford to do it, do it. Ntirous can easily be added later. Nothing worse than running out of hp. A well built stroker should last a long time. By well bult, I mean bullt to factory specs as far as all clearances. No rocket science required. Just attention to detail.
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Pretty Fast
Expert Class
Posts: 116
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posted October 27, 2009 08:55 PM
quote:
when used properly, nitrous wont really hurt anything more than any other way of adding that much power to your motor. where most guys go wrong and have problems is when they want more power, put in bigger jets and dont have it setup toi handle it. IMO put a 50 shot on it and spray from 2nd gear. run good gas, run stock timing or 1 degree retarded and about 12.5:1 AFR
another thing to watch out for, only use nitrous in the upper rpm range. you are spraying a constant amount(unless using a controller) but the amount of nitrous a motor uses per combustion event varies with rpm. at low rpm each stroke will take in a lot of nitrous compared to a high rpm where it will only be able to use a little of that constant spray. say at 4000 rpm you start spraying 50 hp each cylinder gets X amount of nitrous but at 8000 rpm it only gets 0.5X amount. higher rpm is less stressful.
i have my rpm window switch set to come on above 7500 rpm if my bike is in second gear or higher and is WOT and it will shut off at 11500 rpm to avoid hitting the rev limiter with nitrous(another bad thing)
anyway of adding power will be more stressful on the motor, but if you only need that extra power every now and then, nitrous is a great way to do it. if you want the power all the time, go with a larger more efficient engine or forced induction
Thanks KZScott! Great info. I'm taking all that in. So a 50 shot wouldn't really be any harder on the engine than a 30? Also, what all is required to go from, lets say a 30 shot to a 40 or 50 shot? Is it simply jus changing the nozzle or is more involved?
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TRNorBRN6001
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Posts: 2021
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posted October 28, 2009 08:14 AM
With a small shot like 30, not hard on much of anything.................but as you go bigger it can be hard on pistons and valves without the right set up.
Jet and add a little fuel = more HP, lol.................its very addictive.
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shiphteey
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posted October 28, 2009 08:46 AM
A 50 shot will be harder on the engine than a 30.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 28, 2009 03:37 PM
a dry shot is very simple if you keep things around 50 hp or so. much more and i would suggest direct port dry or switch to a wet setup. check out a cold fusion or dynotune dry setup, then build one using NOS parts.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Pretty Fast
Expert Class
Posts: 116
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posted October 29, 2009 09:50 AM
quote:
a dry shot is very simple if you keep things around 50 hp or so. much more and i would suggest direct port dry or switch to a wet setup. check out a cold fusion or dynotune dry setup, then build one using NOS parts.
Cold fusion? What exactly is that, KZ?
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TRNorBRN6001
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Posts: 2021
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posted October 29, 2009 12:19 PM
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