Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted August 16, 2009 05:42 AM
Safe Oil Weight?
While this is fresh on my mind:
For my stock engine 14, is it safe to run 5w20 for racing? My bike sees 100 miles or less between changes, and is brought up to operating temperature (heat cycled) before racing.
I usually run 10w40, but of course I am looking for any increase in hp I can get, being stock motored.
Any real hp gains to be seen with oil?
Shane
  
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted August 16, 2009 05:57 AM
We Y2K 12r owners know that too much oil in the cases will hurt H.P.!!!!!
I have seen and heard about 2-5 h.p. wih light oil. I would rather have good engine protection than a couple H.P.
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chavcat
Zone Head
Posts: 524
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posted August 16, 2009 08:44 AM
Psycho - are you running oil capacity as per OEM specs?
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NOX
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posted August 16, 2009 06:39 PM
Run 5w20 amsoil dominator at factory fill specs, ........
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VincentHill
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posted August 17, 2009 12:12 PM
From speaking to Brock, he runs 0 wt oil with some additives and for street he runs 5 w 20 but there in only 1 oil he would do this with. I would call him. I know that the person that designed this oil is an Aero Space Enbgineer that started Alysin!
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KZScott
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posted August 17, 2009 12:38 PM
Im running 5w20 RP again this yr
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00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
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Shane661
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posted August 17, 2009 12:56 PM
quote:
Im running 5w20 RP again this yr
I'm tempted to try the 5w20...just not sure how it will be for the 1 mile stuff...
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NOX
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posted August 17, 2009 02:29 PM
For the mile, you might run, 10 30 dominator
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dubious
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posted August 17, 2009 05:13 PM
Why doesn't anyone run 0-40?
Less start up resistance and better cold flow, as well as good heat protection?
I like amsoil 0-40 myself...
any input?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NOX
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posted August 17, 2009 09:31 PM
For street riding, I would say yes.......
My motor never gets started in cold weather....., and never is run for more than a couple minutes at a time.
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dubious
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posted August 18, 2009 07:28 AM
 Edited By: dubious on 18 Aug 2009 15:34
I am able to buy the 0-40 wet clutch motorcycle specific Amsoil for about 2/3 the price of the 20-50, 0r the 5-20 for that matter and it rarely gets over 100f here.
I save even more when I buy it by the case
I think I have all my bases covered for 2/3 the $ and only need to keep 1 type of oil in the shop for all 5 bikes and all seasons then. one of them is an ATV I use for snow plowing the driveway, so yes it does see -20f ...LOL yuck, I don't even want to think about it right now.
All bike specific oil by amsoil has additional antifoam additives, and reduced or eliminated moly for wet clutches. Its desinged for the specific intent.
Doug, Jim, Karl or anyone else for that matter.... am I missing something here?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NOX
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posted August 18, 2009 03:03 PM
I have never run bike specific oil in my race bikes.......
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14nooby
Zone Head
Posts: 987
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posted August 18, 2009 03:56 PM
Shane,
I run the 0w20 and really like the performance from this oil. This oil breaks down fast and requires constant oil changes. One other note is it drains off of the clutch fibers alot faster than heavier oils so be sure and get your bike warm before making a pass. I sometimes go 2 weeks without starting my bike and learned my lesson by frying my clutch from not warming it up, dry clutches are bad.
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oldkawboy
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posted August 18, 2009 06:59 PM
Shane,
Back years ago when I was trying to break 200 at Maxton I ran Maxum 0/10w full synthetic for one meet. Me and the boys each made 8 passes, 24 total for the week-end and we all reached our goal. I recently checked all bearing clearances and they looked great as did everything inside the cases........no harm done that I can tell after an additional 22,000 hard miles. Needless to say it didn't take long to drain that oil out when we got home, came out like water!
I never let the engine idle during that meet.
If I'm close to reaching another goal I wouldn't hesitate to do it again but maybe I just got lucky........I dunno.
Dan
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
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posted August 19, 2009 03:55 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 19 Aug 2009 14:58
I run Joe Gibbs racing oil. Usually XP3 10w/30.
They make lighter oils, and break-in oils also. These oils make the best power on the dyno that we have seen and the pushrod tips and rocker arms on the vintage race engines live the longest with this oil. The rules say "factory cast rockers" in this class.
Of course your bike engine doesn't have such an extreme pressure point like a stock non roller pushrod and rocker arm with a 550# racing spring in it turning 8000 rpm in a road race.
http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/engineoils.html
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Shane661
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posted August 19, 2009 04:18 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 19 Aug 2009 12:18
Jim, I see this 10/30 oil listed:
$173.88
00307
XP3 Case of 12 Quarts
http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/xp3.html
Is this the stuff you are talking about? Almost $14.50 a quart....ouch.
Shane
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shiphteey
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posted August 19, 2009 06:21 AM
Shane, the Repsol oil that I run now is 10W30. Retail is $14.95 a liter on em, you can have it for $13.49. API rating is quite high, even higher than Motul with an API rating of SM. So far my motor has been good to me and I am exploring the limits of a stock compression/piston/rod/crank ZX12 motor as you already know.
I think for very short bursts like @ the strip you can chance it, but your motor has relatively low miles and you'd be pissed if it popped because you ran something too thin. You are generally more conservative or cautious than I so I think you should stay with 10W30 for LSR and try the 10s or 20s for the strip only. Sup to you though.
A.
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NOX
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posted August 19, 2009 06:41 AM
quote:
Shane,
I run the 0w20 and really like the performance from this oil. This oil breaks down fast and requires constant oil changes. One other note is it drains off of the clutch fibers alot faster than heavier oils so be sure and get your bike warm before making a pass. I sometimes go 2 weeks without starting my bike and learned my lesson by frying my clutch from not warming it up, dry clutches are bad.
I sometimes do not start my bike for weeks......
ALways warm it up before a pass........
never eat clutches and my bike has not had a heavier oil in it since it was new 7 years ago
____________
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2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted August 19, 2009 07:32 AM
Shane thanks for the correction.... I run the XP3 10/30 not XP2, my bad. I corrected my above post.
Our cost is $8.80 a quart and we sell it for $10 a quart if you buy a case. We don't make much on it really.
I know XP2 is a little more expensive than the XP3. But we stock them all because we build suck a wide array of racing engines here.
The 1000 hp big block dirt modified engines run XP2 and they are tough on oil. BUT we set the engine up to run that oil !!!
These oils can take some serious heat. They are engineered for all out racing engines. and have large amounts of the high pressure additives for cams rockers etc. They were originally privately developed by Richard Childress Racing for the cup engines and they sold the production rights to Joe Gibbs Racing and they decided to market it.
How you select a viscosity is based on the flow that you require threw the engine. The flow threw the engine is set by the bearing clearances.
Many people think that by using a higher viscosity oil they are doing the engine a favor because they see higher oil pressure. But in fact that's not true. Oil pressure is a measurement of the resistance of flow threw the engine. Less flow is less cooling for the rods and crank. So a 50 weight oil in the wrong application can overheat your rods,bearings and crank if the flow is inadequate to remove the heat generated.
I run my rod bearings loose at .0027"-.003" so that I can run the 10w/30 and have good flow for cooling. If you were so inclined to run a zero weight oil you would want the rod bearing clearances tighter, or your oil pressure at low rpms would be too low. You can turn up the idle so the engine always has oil pressure but having the idle set to 3000 rpm on the street would get old. Also the windage increases with lighter weight oils so that's another reason to reduce the flow.
Keeping the crank "floating" on anything but a blown top fuel or alcohol engine doesn't take as much oil pressure as you might think. The real issue is cooling. That's the primary reason for the oil.
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Y2KZX12R
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 19, 2009 07:37 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 19 Aug 2009 15:58
quote:
Shane, the Repsol oil that I run now is 10W30. Retail is $14.95 a liter on em, you can have it for $13.49. API rating is quite high, even higher than Motul with an API rating of SM. So far my motor has been good to me and I am exploring the limits of a stock compression/piston/rod/crank ZX12 motor as you already know.
I think for very short bursts like @ the strip you can chance it, but your motor has relatively low miles and you'd be pissed if it popped because you ran something too thin. You are generally more conservative or cautious than I so I think you should stay with 10W30 for LSR and try the 10s or 20s for the strip only. Sup to you though.
A.
Ali, I agree that for drag racing and short bursts you can get away with a lot more than you can LSR and on the street.
The factory runs the rod bearings tight. The clearances are ok for the lighter weight oils. flow will increase as will cooling. Your main concern will be oil pressure at idle.
So when you are at a LSR event keep the idle up where you have decent oil pressure. Say 2000? You don't need much oil pressure at idle there is no load on the bearings and crank.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted August 19, 2009 01:38 PM
Note, I do set my idle at 1500. Note, do not put it in gear with the engine running at 1500, even with the clutch pulled.
I start the bike in gear......, dont want any damage to the tranny
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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AcadianaZX
Advertiser
Posts: 530
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posted August 20, 2009 04:13 AM
quote:
I am able to buy the 0-40 wet clutch motorcycle specific Amsoil for about 2/3 the price of the 20-50, 0r the 5-20 for that matter and it rarely gets over 100f here.
I save even more when I buy it by the case
I think I have all my bases covered for 2/3 the $ and only need to keep 1 type of oil in the shop for all 5 bikes and all seasons then. one of them is an ATV I use for snow plowing the driveway, so yes it does see -20f ...LOL yuck, I don't even want to think about it right now.
All bike specific oil by amsoil has additional antifoam additives, and reduced or eliminated moly for wet clutches. Its desinged for the specific intent.
Doug, Jim, Karl or anyone else for that matter.... am I missing something here?
Hey Doubious, No your not missing a thing. You even opened it some more for my knowledge. 0w would probably cure some peoples cold start rattles a little better than the other stuff we provide. Thanks
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