woppi
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Posts: 1362
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posted May 29, 2009 12:51 AM
need help -- chassis ---zx12r turbo dragbike --
need some help ! to get more grip ---- zx12r turbo dragbike ---- 63" wheelbase, lowerd,
i think we have a rookie mistake ---- many many times we have wheelspinn !
we have no rubber at the tracks ! we ride on old airfield tracks ---
who can give me some rookie infos ???
thanks
woppi
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" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
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Shane661
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posted May 29, 2009 03:45 AM
What kind of tire, pressure? What type of rear shock? Rider weight? Hand clutch or lock up?
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woppi
Pro
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posted May 29, 2009 04:29 AM
#
1.) mtc lock up
2.) shinko r003 soft ---- 16-18 psi
3.) m/t mcr2 ---- 16-18 psi
4.) rear shock - wilbers (from germany - modified for dragracing) + harder spring
5.) rider --- ? 230 lbs ? suited
thanks
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" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
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Shane661
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posted May 29, 2009 04:43 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 29 May 2009 12:44
Well, others can add a lot more than I can...but...
1) The adjustment of the lock up can obviously cause an issue it if engages too suddenly. I have experienced this on Racheal's turbo...it would lock up suddenly and spin the tire...even at 100 mph. It wasn't set up properly for my weight.
2) That is about where I run my Shinko's. I'm sure someone will be along to tell you to drop your tire pressure to less than 10 psi, though.
3) Never used a M/T.
4) Make sure you have enough rebound to keep the shock planted.
5) That rider weight should be helping. Sounds like some very slick track conditions.
Wait for the experts to come along before you change a thing! 
Shane
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Stuart Racing
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posted May 29, 2009 05:10 AM
Can you use a slick???
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ZRXDean
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posted May 29, 2009 05:49 AM
Does it hook up when you take power out of it? Turbos and bad tracks don't mix well.
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NOX
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posted May 29, 2009 06:25 AM
woppi, send me an email
use the data we used on your bike, and apply the same knowledge to the turbo......
at least on the starting line....., on the top end......., well....sometimes less is more......, lower the boost on the top of the track......., go to about 8 psi
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woppi
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posted May 29, 2009 10:39 AM
quote:
Can you use a slick???
Slick´s are NOT allowed !!!!
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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woppi
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posted May 29, 2009 10:49 AM
quote:
Does it hook up when you take power out of it? Turbos and bad tracks don't mix well.
we will try it !!
on sunday we are at the track - airfield - in hungary
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" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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woppi
Pro
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posted May 29, 2009 10:50 AM
quote:
woppi, send me an email
use the data we used on your bike, and apply the same knowledge to the turbo......
at least on the starting line....., on the top end......., well....sometimes less is more......, lower the boost on the top of the track......., go to about 8 psi
okidoki !
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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almost_les
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posted May 29, 2009 11:15 AM
the solution is very simple! just take off the turbo system... (and sell it to me )
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woppi
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posted May 29, 2009 11:37 AM
quote:
the solution is very simple! just take off the turbo system... (and sell it to me )
its not mine !! zx12r turbo is my buddy´s bike !!
i ride with wet nos system !
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" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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KZScott
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posted May 29, 2009 01:42 PM
try 8-10 psi in the shinko
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woppi
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posted May 29, 2009 01:47 PM
quote:
try 8-10 psi in the shinko
okidoki
thx
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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NOX
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posted May 29, 2009 02:04 PM
woppi, check your email
good luck.
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ninjaboy311
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posted May 29, 2009 03:53 PM
Try the Michelin Power One.......
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tcchin
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posted May 29, 2009 04:28 PM
Softer shock springs give better traction and require less rebound damping. Too much damping makes the rear wheel unresponsive, which reduces traction. Too little damping will compromise wheel control, which also reduces traction. Make sure you have adequate sag and that you're not bottoming out (zip tie around the shock shaft).
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Shane661
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posted May 29, 2009 05:32 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 May 2009 01:52
For the purpose of the dragstrip, some increased rebound damping is beneficial. In fact, the Penske drag shock uses valving which slows the rebound of the shock. The purpose is to keep the weight transfer to the back wheel, for traction.
I recently attended a Penske seminar, and they explained this in depth. The increased/slower rebound is probably the biggest difference in their drag shocks. It would not be uncommon to see the rear suspension stay compressed well down the track...even to the 330' or more.
The dragstrip is typically smooth, and the ability to properly transfer the weight of the bike for maximum traction is more important than dealing with bumps. When I took my bike to Maxton I had to be careful because Maxton is a bumpy track and the drag shocks are simply not designed for that. The baseline rebound settings are well above what you might see in a roadrace shock. The entire valve design is different.
I don't know what kind of valving Woppi's shock has. It could be that his shock is not designed similar to the Penske.
Shane
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tcchin
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posted May 29, 2009 08:01 PM
I agree that drag racing requires more rebound damping that would be prudent to run in a road racing application, and that weight transfer control is key. However, you still need to be careful that the shock doesn't stack up with preload to the point that the wheel can no longer follow the road surface, causing it to lose traction. Diagnosing suspension and chassis problems on a forum is always a guessing game, at best.
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woppi
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posted May 29, 2009 09:27 PM
thx all -- for your infos !!!
we drive to te wall mart track ( old airfield ) in hungary --- 5,5 hours to ride with the van
sunday - raceday
thx
woppi
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" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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NOX
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posted May 30, 2009 06:27 AM
Woppi, post some pics......
I think these guys have forgotton what type of surface you run on.......
Guys, he runs on what would compare to our return road....... NO track prep at all...., on old air strips......,
It is awesome that woppi got his first 8 second pass last year.......
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted June 01, 2009 06:32 PM
Tim has it spot on. That back end needs to squat to the max, not bottom out, and rebound just enough to offer some suspension compliance in the back half of the track. Get the sag right - 75mm?, and don't over spring it.
Do you have stageable boost? If so, limit boost in first, ramp it up a bit in second, hit it HARD in third and fourth and back off a bit in fifth and a maybe little more in sixth, depending on the trap speed. As the aero drag loads go up more boost is wasted with wheelspin pushing air. You've got to find the sweet spot for every track.
Rickey's shootout bikes were consistently the fastest at around 375 max hp unless there was awesome traction, when we could run up to 425. Any more than that was useless anywhere.
Doug
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ZRXDean
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posted June 02, 2009 10:07 AM
Wow, good info Doug.
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NOX
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posted June 02, 2009 02:28 PM
Yes, but he was running on prepped Prostar tracks.......
Woppi runs on tracks with no prep, basically like us trying to drag race down the freeway.......
Not gonna happen.......
The last part of dougs post is key.......
With BIG hp, you have to race the track..........
Especially in areas where you don't have a good track.
Thats why I have not been running on my home track, too much to change, just to make some passes, so I leave it set up for what I intend to do........
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42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted June 02, 2009 04:48 PM
Wow. Almost 3" of sag? Is that measured at the tail section?
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