Shane661
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posted May 23, 2009 02:32 PM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 23 May 2009 22:41
Cut Down Tanks, Construction Tips?
I've procured a ZX-14 tank to cut. I'm sure there are some headaches that need to be addressed when doing one of these. I know a few of you have done your own tanks, especially on the 12R.
I plan to keep enough capacity to use the fuel sending unit (it will still be plenty low). Are these tanks single wall, easily welded? How did you handle venting? What did you cut it with? Best type of welder to use?
Any input you can provide to help make this process go smoothly would be appreciated. Thanks!
Shane
  
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dubious
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posted May 23, 2009 02:42 PM
Most welders will want it steamed out, before they begin cutting and welding.
Years ago I modified the tank on my GSXR1100.
Be sure that the fabrication process begins and completes promptly once you steam the tank out. Then spray , or rinse the internal of the tank very deliberately, ( I bought a gallon of WD40 ) with a water dispalcement / rust inhibitor.
Mine was welded with a tig. If they work with automotive sheetmetal, and for those restoring old cars, it will be old hat!
Be sure your sanction allows modified tanks.
Ours, the CMRC only allows stock , or catalyst tanks.... which I find obsurd, because an inspected, certified steel tank is superior IMO.
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Shane661
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posted May 23, 2009 02:44 PM
It will pass tech at my venues, no problem, if well constructed.
What do you mean by "steaming" the tank out? How is it done??
What did you use as a sealer?
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dubious
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posted May 23, 2009 03:05 PM
Quite literaly most welders will want the interior of the tank steamed with a steam lance, as the porous metal can absorb hydrocarbons and ignite while welding.
I am not sure what they used to seal it.
All I used was a gallon of wd 40, with the tank all bolted back up, and wswished it around, left it upside down (welds submerged) with the wd40 in it until I was ready to have it sealed.
I lived in an isolated area, and couldn't get it sealed right away.
I would stick to thr aircraft fuel cell sealants though,
It will likely be the safest and best solution, as lives depend on clean aircraft fuel systems.
PPG has a few products available, and here is a link to another:
http://www.kemfast.com/content/adhesives-sealants/prc-de-soto/fuel-tank-sealants.html
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
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posted May 23, 2009 03:18 PM
I saw a Busa tank done. When they cut it, they left extra metal to weld to, instead of cutting it to the desired height. I was wondering if I need to do the same? I was thinking of cutting it and folding the metal over flat so that a top plate can be welded to the lip, if you know what I mean?
The way that one was done, they drilled holes along marked line, and cut between them. It did not show what they cut it with. I'm wondering if I can do it with a jigsaw with a thin blade?
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 23, 2009 03:59 PM
Cut off wheel works well. I used stock gas cap and top of tank, cut out the middle and slapped the top back on. I cut the ss vent lines and attached rubber fuel hose to each end of the vent lines.
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Shane661
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posted May 23, 2009 04:01 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 24 May 2009 00:02
quote:
Cut off wheel works well. I used stock gas cap and top of tank, cut out the middle and slapped the top back on. I cut the ss vent lines and attached rubber fuel hose to each end of the vent lines.
So, a standard dremel with a cut off wheel will work?
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 23, 2009 04:07 PM
Air cut off would be better as the metal is kind of tough and thick, for a 12 tank at least. Plus it goes much quicker and you can clean/grind as you go. I tried the dremel first as I thought it would be cleaner and more accurate, but after about a minute, gave up real fast.
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Shane661
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posted May 23, 2009 04:16 PM
Thanks Gary, I'll look into getting an air cut off tool...
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dubious
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posted May 23, 2009 04:20 PM
Zip cut will do, but an air nibbler would be the best IMO.
They use them to cut sheetmetal on cars all the time.
Most will cut up to 16ga sheetmetal, without distorting, or twisting it like shears would, no big mess or filings in the tank either.
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Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Shane661
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posted May 23, 2009 04:27 PM
The air nibbler looks ideal. I can always practice on the top of the tank first. 
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tshultz
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posted May 23, 2009 05:40 PM
http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Paint/products/1/
POR-15® is a high-tech, high performance rust-preventive coating designed for application directly on rusted metal surfaces.
check this web site out they have fuel tank kits to seal and prevent rust.
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whitehendrix
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posted May 23, 2009 09:54 PM
i welded a gas gauge sender to my tank.. i found that the metal was single wall and came in at .030"
i MIG'd my shit with multiple passes.. cut the hole initially with a dremel and a 1" cutoff wheel, then stepped to a 3" pneumatic wheel and finished the hole with a carbide bit in a die grinder.
multi-passed the seam to build the metal up ti .100 before making a solid pass instead of just stitching it.. keeps porosity down and adds structural integrity.
i purged it with compressed air before cutting, and while cutting, kept the air blowing.
plasma cutting works the best for that stuff tho. localized heat makes it nice and it's a thousand times faster and better than a cutoff wheel.
i would have preferred to TIG it but i don't have money like that..lol 
a trick to welding stuff like that, ESPECIALLY turbo headers and such, is to cap the thing off and pump it full of an inert shielding gas.. obviously you won't want and pressure inside it, but if you can get 1psi or keep a steady flow into the tank, thats keeps the back of the weld area from oxidizing where theres no shielding gas present. no flakes, no little boogers to get sucked into the pump.. just a minty bead.
with cutting big and folding, it's kind of a whore to do. you distort the radius that way if you'er not careful.. i leave extra metal initially just cuz i can. i'd rather have too much and easily remove it than try to build it back up.
if your using MIG, set it on a low ass low heat setting and just bump it.. kinda liek spot welding.. this adds temper to the metal and builds it up slow without blowing a hole in the tank. i'll make a 1/4" spot, wait til i see the glow dissipate, then move up half a spot diameter and bump it again.. i'll run an entire bvead like that.. it takes forever but i can make a MIG weld look like a TIG with that process too..lol.. it's structually sound and astetically pleasing.
as well, once you get it built up to where it's hard to blow thru the metal, you can run a continuous bead and seal it all up nice and pretty.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
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ill never own a busa unless
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brendasue555
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posted May 23, 2009 10:03 PM
My ZX11 has the tank cut down and it is perfect. The work is so good it looks like it came that way. I am sure that Doug Meyer did this tank himself so he could probably give you some good advise on this project.
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entropy
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posted May 23, 2009 11:25 PM
Edited By: entropy on 24 May 2009 08:21
shane,
i cut the "bubble" off the top of my tank, but left the floor so i can still use the front bolt to secure the tank, and the wires, airbox inspection covers are under the "floor" just like before.
I put a plate over the hole and put a filler cap in it, with a vent line. MadMike hooked me up with a filler cap from Koenig, not big & bulky.
I did no fancy stuff getting gas outa the tank before cutting; sloshed a buncha water in it.
Covered the floor with .5" foam, even looks OK. I have more foam if you go this way.
works GREAT.
Sealed it w/POR15 like Todd says.
After it is welded it must be cleaned/sealed or it'll rust (so i am told)
I ditched the fuel level sending unit, no need for it, remove the cap and you can see the bottom of the tank.
I dunno if what i did to my 12 will work on a 14, but i think so.
entropy heap at Mar '09 Texas Mile:
bonus pic, Obama Chia:
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KZScott
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posted May 24, 2009 05:13 AM
on the inert gas part, ive heard an el cheapo way is to pipe car exhaust(must be a lean running vehicle) into the tank for a constant flow of "inert gas". another idea is to have a slow flow of co2 from a paintball tank.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 24, 2009 04:03 PM
I like LowFlyers tank too!
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