aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted May 23, 2009 12:21 PM
mixing fuels
I had mentioned to the dealer parts guy that I was going to mix some race gas in with pump fuel to raise the octane. He said they were having problems at the track and that three guys blew their motors. The only common denominator was they were mixing their fuel with pump gas.He said they are finding out that there is a lot of water in the gas in Ct. and when mixed with VP breaks the fuel down overnight.Now I have heard of some fuels gumming up overnight but not from mixing.Anyone hear anything about this?
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entropy
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posted May 23, 2009 01:46 PM
call VP
that doesn't sound plausible to me
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2000redrocket
Pro
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posted May 23, 2009 01:59 PM
back a while ago i had a zx11c that had 200psi cranking comp. i put about 2 gal of 100 in it at the track with the 93 and it would smell real good and keep it from pinging for 2 more tanks after that. ii had good expearence with using race gas and pump gas.
if you are thinking about doing it you then do not need to run it all the time so do not go overboard. odds are you can get away with the lower rated "race" gas and not waste money on something like 110 or 112.
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dubious
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posted May 23, 2009 03:08 PM
I have heard that MR9 MRxo1 , and a few of the others will dissolve plastic in the fuel system, fittings, pumps, and filters can be damaged if the fuel system is not flushed after using some of the race fuels, or if the race fuel is left in the tank.
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted May 23, 2009 05:31 PM
quote:
I have heard that MR9 MRxo1 , and a few of the others will dissolve plastic in the fuel system, fittings, pumps, and filters can be damaged if the fuel system is not flushed after using some of the race fuels, or if the race fuel is left in the tank.
I heard the same thing. Just bought u4.2 say,s on the can to drain after use.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 23, 2009 07:43 PM
All of the VP MR's and U's require draining and flushing after use. Failure to so do will result in fuel system failure. MR9 destroyed three of our fuel pumps in one weekend. I've heard rumors of other teams with multiple bikes going through seven pumps in one weekend. Fortunately, NASCAR has saved us from ourselves and now we use their spec fuel, Sunoco 260GTX. No lead, no oxygen, low octane, slow flame speed, low power, low fun. But it's cheap...
There is no such thing as "pure gasoline", because every motor fuel is just a mixture of a bunch of stuff. So there's no real harm in mixing fuels. In fact, back in the bad old days, we used to blend various fuels at the track to suit the conditions with excellent results.
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted May 23, 2009 09:39 PM
fuel breaks down, but not THAT fast.. i wanna say 93 (if i recall these numbers right) breaks down to 87 or 89 in 4 days.
my buddy sells sunoco race fuel and he's required to test the specific gravity regularly.. he's experimented a bit and found the stability of the fuels to be fairly decent, even when mixed.. they have a range to fall into as well, and he's found that typically even after a week or more, they're within spec.
i've heard of the whole race gas/water thing before.. maybe its a geograhpic thing.. maybe it's a sales thing.. i read where someone had put race gas in their bike and it started to run like shit.. someone suggested that the fuel, even tho 100 something octane, was old and watered down since it's rarely bought.. makes sense tho.
breaking down overnight makes me think somethin wasn't right from the start.
they shoulda tested the gas as well before the race.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 23, 2009 10:42 PM
unless you have a built engine that the builder says you need xxxx race gas you do not need it for a stock zx12r engine. others can give input but i am thinking you could figure your comp and go up .5 and still use 93 in it ok.unless you are getting oxigenated fuel to gain hp that way regular high octane fuel on our stock comp bike engines is not needed. i and others ran them on 89. if your going to put something in the tank for horse power put klotts nitro additive in at the recomended mixture and ritchen it up like it says to and then you have some good stuff.
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted May 24, 2009 05:21 AM
quote:
unless you have a built engine that the builder says you need xxxx race gas you do not need it for a stock zx12r engine. others can give input but i am thinking you could figure your comp and go up .5 and still use 93 in it ok.unless you are getting oxigenated fuel to gain hp that way regular high octane fuel on our stock comp bike engines is not needed. i and others ran them on 89. if your going to put something in the tank for horse power put klotts nitro additive in at the recommended mixture and ritchen it up like it says to and then you have some good stuff.
My bike is 1426cc's with a manual timing adjuster set at 21/2 degrees advanced and is now at 14.8 compression.The builder thought I should hike the octane for awhile at least but readily admits to not having knowledge in bike engines.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted May 24, 2009 05:29 AM
i would use 112 sunoco or something around 112. dam bike eats 8.xxx dollar fuel i bet???
wow big engine. yehaa
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aliveagain
Needs a life
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posted June 03, 2009 11:47 AM
The tech rep from Sunoco said there are no problems mixing pump and race fuel.He said it is true the ethanol may absorb more water,but that so long as the water isn't sepparating out, there should be no problems.He also mentioned that the fuel was designed for guys with hot rods and oldies in mind in such that the fuel will hold its octane for up to five years.That way they could drive their cars on occaision and not worry about if the fuel was still good.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 03, 2009 12:27 PM
with that kind of compression i would only dilute the 112 or 110 if you are street riding it only. that is my thought anyway.
my drag car had 235 psi compression with a 265@.050 and i would run it in the shop with 93 pump gas. would work ok if temp stayed down below 200. but after two weeks it would afterrun like a old carboned up old hotrod on regular at 185degF. i would never expect to be able to just drive it on 93. maybe 100 but i never tryed it.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted June 04, 2009 04:11 AM
Now here is where I get a little foggy.I have heard bike need a lot less octane due to the size of the bore and speed of flame travel.I have even read that some guys are using 87 octane at the track with 12.5/13:1 compression.At what point would pump gas be a no-no?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 04, 2009 04:46 AM
i guess you are going to have tofind that out. some say our bikes when checked tor real are not close to 12.5 to 1. i do not know my self. i did run my 12 on 89 and it worked fine.just be carefull.
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KZScott
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high on speed
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posted June 04, 2009 12:07 PM
last season. 13.5:1 cr (measured), 86mm bore, 87 octane, 5 degrees advanced. ran that way one wknd at the track with no problems. it was even running lean(13.6:1 afr) by mistake (5 degrees was a mistake too, it was supposed to be 3) pistons/combustion chambers were prepped for nitrous so that probly helped a lot.
i ran all my nitrous passes on 91 octane
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NOX
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PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted June 04, 2009 04:03 PM
quote:
quote:
I have heard that MR9 MRxo1 , and a few of the others will dissolve plastic in the fuel system, fittings, pumps, and filters can be damaged if the fuel system is not flushed after using some of the race fuels, or if the race fuel is left in the tank.
I heard the same thing. Just bought u4.2 say,s on the can to drain after use.
My U4.2 stays in all year, and I run 123 mph in the 1/8, with my good map in, stock 12 motor.
Runs like 118 with my slow 9.50 Super Street Map in it.......
As long as the bike is started every week or two its okay, from what VP told me, the new U4 is meant to not mess stuff up, which is why it lost 1 or 2 hp over the old stuff........
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