KZScott
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high on speed
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posted April 26, 2009 06:07 PM
how many MS does it take...?
... for a 12v relay to activate the circuit after being given the activation signal? (roughly)
dads bike is not auto shifting or button shifting during test runs (only one succsessful shift) and i believe its due to the relay i have in the circuit "eating up" kill time. the air ram works fine, and you can tell the engine is being killed, but i dont think its being killed long enough. the output from the 2 step cpu is pos and the new kill box requires a neg activation signal so i have the pos activating a relay to connect the kill box to ground.
we had the kill time set at 63MS, but if the relay takes X amount of kill time to activate the circuit, the motor is only being killed for 63MS - X= __ MS. X+63 = new kill time
plz solve for X 
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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tcchin
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Posts: 867
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posted April 26, 2009 06:28 PM
 Edited By: tcchin on 27 Apr 2009 02:46
Depends on the config of the relay. Some solid-state relay are like 1ms on for half max power. The 30-40 amp automotive relays are something like 5-20ms. You can get some specs from digikey.com.
http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Tyco%20Electronics%20P%20B%20PDFs/VF4%20cat%20pages.pdf
http://www.components.omron.com/components/web/pdflib.nsf/0/D22CC3762D14876F85257201007DD6B6/$file/G3NE_0607.pdf
http://www.components.omron.com/components/web/pdflib.nsf/0/39018354E59A56C985257201007DD68C/$file/G8JN_0607.pdf
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whitehendrix
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posted April 26, 2009 07:53 PM
yup. "bounce" as it's referred to can vary that much depending on coil winding, pole construction, voltage application, style of relay, how many contacts are being actuated.
lots of variables.. if it's an NEC or omron or other relay, you can usually get that info on their site.. i'm wonderng if a solid-state relay might be a better option. they make em in all kinds of footprints and styles..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted April 27, 2009 01:52 PM
i think its 20 or 25 amp, just a regular automotive relay from canadian tire.
so i should see about using a solid state relay? theres no delay setting on the kill box, so the switching valve would be activating just before the motor is killed.... hmmm maybe thats ok if its only about 20ms??
thx guys
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
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Posts: 867
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posted April 27, 2009 04:40 PM
How much current are you passing through the relay? I've built power-switching transistor circuits before that acted like solid-state relays. Solid-state relays can get kinda spendy as the ampacity increases.
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted April 27, 2009 05:26 PM
I have nooo idea  its probly not very much, as its just an activation wire going to the kill box. its a small wire. I can try to find out i think there may be a multimeter in the garage somewhere......
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
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Posts: 757
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posted April 27, 2009 10:07 PM
again.. something else Tim knows inside and out!! lmao. i love it.
one of these days i will find something he can't answer!! hahhaha 
Scott, if it's anything like a "remote" on an audio amp or something along those lines, the trigger circuit should only draw a VERY slight amount of current. typically they'll use that to trip a gate on a switching transistor and let it do all the work inside the box or whatever.
lets tak the little gem of a relay in our junction boxes for example. its a 1 form C dry relay. MR301 is the basic style.. the acutal relay is a custom relay built to kawi specs, but the same model on their little data sheet (http://datasheet.digchip.com/322/322-3-099796-MR301.pdf) is the MR301-N39L.
it's load capacity is 5A and has a 5MS operating time excluding bounce, which i'd factor to be another 1-2mS MAX.. depending on current as well..
with that being said, if you use a small relay similar to that, i'd expect activation times below 10mS. with a large relay, probably 15 ish. if you're talking a hugeass honkin big boy relay thats kinda palm-sized, then i'd consider running two very small relays or doing solid state instead.. thing is with solid state or tiny relays, you can always parallel them for more powah! the reaction time remains the same.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 28, 2009 06:01 AM
Scott, I am sure you are doing what I had to do to mine.........
I still run my kill from 50 to 60 ms, depending on the track, so I doubt it is much........
I have never had an issue with it lagging .........,
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
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AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
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KZScott
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posted April 28, 2009 04:47 PM
thx for the info whitey I still need to see about finding the multimeter.... its looking like ill have to buy one... arrg lol
Nox, can you double check where your relay is for me? Im thinking its in a different spot, but i could be wrong(im thinking yours is for the switched 12v? not activation). the old style kill box works on a pos activation signal from the 2 step cpu. i dont have the old style kill box like you, i have the new style that needs a neg activation signal, so im using the pos signal to trip a relay to ground the kill box(neg activation signal).
this air shifter worked every time last yr at 65 ms. now at 63 its not. 2ms shouldnt have that effect, its gotta be "bouncing"
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 28, 2009 05:18 PM
I will call you in a few minutes.......
That shit all confuses me........., I hate wiring......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 28, 2009 05:50 PM
s_u_fire@hotmail.com
Looking at the wiring diagram for the old system, its the purple wire that i have the relay on. its between the 2 Step-CPU and the RCI-1 kill box.
I have the IKM-1000 instead of the RCI-1
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted April 28, 2009 11:02 PM
i'm not sure how much i can help, but if i can (on electrical stuff) lemme know.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted April 29, 2009 03:00 PM
FYI: the dynojet multifunction hub has two independently configurable ground outpus. i use one for a shiftlight (spliced the hot wire from the running light) and the other as an adjustable rev limiter (just wire it to the two step) you could use that as an autoshift activation. if you do, remember to have it activate at about 90% throttle and up. sometimes the powercommander will misread of the RPMs when rolling on the throttle and will blip on for a fraction of a second. i think it has something to do with the "acceleration pump" programmed into the ecu making the powercommander think its at a higher rpm. after setting it up like that it worked perfect every time.
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