whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted April 04, 2009 08:20 PM
turbo timing tips
any thoughts on what a good initial timing for ignition should be?
i was lookin at getting a factory pro advancer/retarder rotor but i got to it too late.. but at least i have a part number!! ( rtr-adj-kaw-031)
i have read and seen that +4 on N/A is a killer timing setup on the 7-R.. i know the timings gotta be a bit 'tarded for boost.. is there a simple way of ddetermining the optimum number for this depending on cam timing, boost and other factors, or do i just have to experiment?
thanks for your time!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
  
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 04, 2009 10:38 PM
i would start off with 7 degrees retarded under full boost(normal timing under no boost as the motor thinks its NA at that time), and see what happens. I pulled 7.5 for a 90 shot of nitrous on my 12. im no expert by any means, just have a basic understanding of the concept. allways have enough fuel, it keeps things cool. under full boost/load i would have it tuned about 11.5:1 AFR. under very light load/boost, a lot leaner say 12.8:1. tune the low boost and low rpm areas first and go a bit higher once you get the low areas mapped. never push it. if you feel that rattle or get back fires shut it down! check to see if it was too lean, or if you need to pull more timing.
im a nitrous guy, but i would like to turbo my truck for the learning curve(and uh yeah the power too  )
you may find this link helpful
click
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 05, 2009 09:52 PM
It really depends on what your measured compression is and how much boost you're running, not to mention what fuel you have. Without knowing these tings you are just pulling numbers out of thin air.
D.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted April 06, 2009 06:57 PM
ahh. .thanks to both of ya's.
scott.. problem so far with variable timing is that the ZX7-R is a carburated, fixed ignition bike.. i think the timing is 10* BTDC or something like that and is adjusted thru the CDI.
not really sure as of yet how it all works or if it IS variable or whatever.. when (if..) i can convert to EFI, i wanna have RR hack/notch/reprogram the ECU and i wanna also run the PCIIIr and whatever else i can to tweak stuff..lol
i'll read up on that link as i havet clicked it yet.
Mr. Meyer, i'm looking at dropping to about 8.5:1 and if i can run pump gas, i'll be happy.. i'm shooting for 250 at the wheel i'm pretty sure that i may need to run something like C16 or something along those lineslooking atr not surpassing about 32 PSI to stay inside the compressor surge line on that T3 (.48 A/R, 60 trim comp wheel)
everythings on the back burner because of finances, so i wanna really nail down learning all the ins and outs and whys of what i need to know before i start getting serious again on this.. after all, i have the time to research and read up and whatnot.. might as well take advantage of it instead of being at the build ponit and having to postpone it because i'm an idiot and can't figure it all out..lol
thanks again!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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ZRXDean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted April 08, 2009 09:04 AM
With my old ZRX I used a Dyna 2000 ignition, I think they are available for the ZX7R. It includes a adjustable retard function, and I rigged a boost-switch to take out 8 degrees after 15psi. You can take out 4-8-12-or 16 degrees. With no intercooling or water injection, the blow-thru carb ZRX made great power up to 30psi on C-16, and never melted a piston. I ended up around 10:1 CR - 8.5 may be too conservative for a nice cylinder head like the 7's.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 08, 2009 05:32 PM
Hendrix,
A little more compression, a little less boost. Say 9.5:1 and 6-8 pounds. That should get you 250 pretty nicely and also give you enough power off boost to actually enjoy riding the bike. Pump gas? No more than 5 pounds boost. or you're buying parts.
Dean?
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted April 10, 2009 06:02 PM
 Edited By: whitehendrix on 11 Apr 2009 03:25
ok.. checking against some little charts i have, looks like 7.5 PSI @ 9.5:1 will net a static CR of about 14.25 (or very cloes to).. with that in mind, what fuel would you suggest? a VP rep i spoke to said their numbers are "halfway" rerived from the rough CR you should run the fuel at.. like C-016 should be used around 16:1 for best results, C-12 around 12:1 and so on.. got VP at the store from U-4 to C-16 and i can access any race fuel thru other ppl i know, so, any suggestions on that? or is it just experiment..
Doug, thanks for the suggestion bro!! i was playing with maybe shooting for a slightly higher base CR off boost for "streetability" so it's not totally boost reliant. i've seen that in cars and they're turds until 20psi..lol
i'll take a shot here and say you're saying i'll be buying parts due to detonation onset stemming from te low octane numbers on pump gas? thats what comes to mind initially.
and if it means not blowing things up and buying more expensive fuel.. well, thats cheap insurance then!!
you think 9.5 at less than 10psi would really make 250? i had a numbers ranging from 12-25psi or so to fetch that, then again, that was at a much lower CR.
Dean, you're absolutely right man.. the dyna IS available and you've got me thinkin maybe that'll be a good investment until (if?.lol) i get the EFI conversion figured out and off of paper and into metal..
i know the 7 and 9 are pretty close in design, and i've seen a few 9-R's making upwards of 400HP, so i'm hoping the flow rates and whatnot are pretty close.. i will follow Jim's sugestion of just port cleaning and light polishing.. no porting.
i'm not so sure yet what iu can run on stock internals, but if'when i ever get this damn T3 that's probably never going to come, i'm only going to run maybe no more than 6 or 7 psi until i get some cash together to start building and playing.
if i had a few extra grand laying around, i'd try to buy this old dyno i know someone is sitting on.. MAN that'd be awesome.. not so sure i can get it tho with my poor ass.
oh.. i do have and will use an intercooler.. i got DSM (mitsu eclipse) sidemount I.C and it fits PERFECTLY under the tank just hovering over the vave cover. i've already designed a tray of sorts to take the stock ram-air tubes and blow up thru the IC from the bottom, then vent the hot air out thru another shield and diffuser from under the gas tank (that one will need tweaked a bit i think..) i was considering W/M inj as well..
thanks again guys!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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