whitehendrix
Zone Head
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posted February 03, 2009 08:13 PM
bolts Vs studs
i've heard head studs are better.
not sure 100% why.. i think something to do with load spreading and all..
so.. thoughts?
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ill never own a busa unless
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KZScott
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posted February 03, 2009 08:48 PM
well for starters a bolt can never be threaded all the way into a hole and have the proper torque spec, unless you are a god with a cnc(have the bolt the max length to account for compression of the parts and bolt stretch). with a stud, you can screw it in all the way so it bites all available threads, then the nut on the top provides the proper torque spec. aftermarket studs are usually stronger too(better material and sometimes bigger around too) and can be torqued more. i have a set of APE studs going in my motor this winter. ill feel safer about the narrow headgaskets on my 1287 when spraying 
my .02
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
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whitehendrix
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posted February 03, 2009 08:58 PM
Hmm.. good point.. less variables i guess eh? the stud will never change position or torque..
ok.. more?
theres gotta be..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted February 04, 2009 05:10 AM
i use the APE studs and they are top !!!!
woppi
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" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
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whitehendrix
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posted February 04, 2009 06:41 PM
well, two pros so far saying the same thing.
APE studs it is then. unless someone brings drastically detrimental info to the table..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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VincentHill
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posted February 05, 2009 07:53 AM
Even if you could use all of the available threads, that is not the real problem! It is steel Bolts being torqued into Aluminum threads "OVER & OVER" The steel will not have any wear but the aluminum threads will wear each and every time you tighten the bolts and eventually you will lose thread strength.
With Studs (Even if they are not stronger than the Bolts) you have a steel Nut on a steel stud and if you finally wear it out it is very easy to replace a stud than to Time Sert or Helicoil the case!!
Last, I even had a set of studs made for my cases so that taking them apart will not do any damage to the aluminun threads!
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KZScott
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posted February 05, 2009 08:17 AM
I never thought of that. great point VH. the studs could be left in for several tear downs and rebuilds.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 05, 2009 09:05 AM
My motor has studs and I ain't gonna argue with the perfessor, but the absolute last thing i would worry about is ripping out threads of the cases with the head or case bolts
On the other hand, mini studs for the cam cap might be a plus, although the bolts are what is failing not the threads.
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KZScott
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posted February 05, 2009 09:19 AM
what about getting grade 8 cam cap bolts?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted February 05, 2009 09:20 AM
KZScott
we made some studs ------ clutch cover !!!!!
you know -- if you use a lock up ---- you have to open the clutch many times !!!!
woppi
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 05, 2009 09:38 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 5 Feb 2009 17:39
quote:
what about getting grade 8 cam cap bolts?
i just bought a new set.
That set probably had a hundred (n/j) cycles on em
I learned that it is CRITICAL to torque those bolts.
Once i did it wo a tq wrench and it was too tight and stripped out threads; another time i did it too loose and the it directly affected the measured valve lash, Not a lot, but i like all my valves to be the same, and with the "loose" cap, the numbers were not repeatable to .001"
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2000redrocket
Pro
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posted February 05, 2009 11:10 AM
do the studs for the bike heads and bottom end have fine threads where the nut is?i think the fine threads stay tighter with the say gearing lower as in threads per inch being higher.
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KZScott
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posted February 05, 2009 01:25 PM
quote:
do the studs for the bike heads and bottom end have fine threads where the nut is?i think the fine threads stay tighter with the say gearing lower as in threads per inch being higher.
the APE studs for the 12 do have a finer thread for the nut than the bottom that screws into the case. dont know about other bikes, just what i can get my hands on
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
brickman
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted February 05, 2009 01:32 PM
the more studs i can run on a motor. the better off i am. i;m i little heavy handed.lol
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
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posted February 05, 2009 07:18 PM
Edited By: whitehendrix on 6 Feb 2009 03:20
awesome. i'm sold. maybe even on the cam caps too!! hahaa.. not sure i'd need them tho.. never ran into any troubles yet with any of my bikes or customers' bikes.. then again, i religiously use my Tq wrenches 
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted February 16, 2009 02:14 PM
go to the "ARP" site
they have a complete tutorial on fasteners
bolts & studs
they are no less "self serving" they dont hype their own products
they are very good & reputable people
even if you dont buy their products if you access their site you will learn
the correct way to torque & when to use studs & bolts
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or break your ass...!!
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