Y2KZX12R
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posted January 29, 2009 07:35 PM
Karl, O/S buckets....
Karl, this new boring tooling is awsome. Very ridgid and repeatable. I've done 3 heads with it so far and its the cats ass.
Diameter is held to .00005". I'm very impressed. Its much faster and WAY better tolerance control than the Sunnen VGS20.
I had to make a fixed bar lock for the A axis and that brought the repeatability to under .0001"
once I figured out the best feed rate and chip load.
I have to do a set of 28.5mm buckets in a busa head next week....This guy wants the absolute biggest badest busa head we can make,,,,, custom valves, seats, 28.5mm KW buckets, cnc ported,
We Have a zx14 head were doing bigger buckets in also. Looks like the zx14 guys are finally starting to stepup to the big power, big motor combos.
On another note, the latest version of the zx12r ports are done. its like a stage 2.2 i guess. Higher velocity and higher low lift flow numbers, the best of both worlds. With offset tchambers to match the Muzzy offset block.
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entropy
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posted January 30, 2009 05:35 AM
hey Jim, way cool on the bucket well boring bar!!!!!!!!!!!!
on the 12 head, how are you offsetting the chambers??? moving the valves??? 
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osti33
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posted January 30, 2009 02:16 PM
Offset chambers you say? Hmmm.......Gets a guy thinking. 
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 30, 2009 05:26 PM
No not moving the valves just yet. Just the chamber shape basically.
Taking advantage of the additional bore and offset.
The next step is moving the valves. But it will require billet cams and some welding of the out side of the bucket bosses.
The next step is piston domes to match the new shape.... Ryan knows what i'm talking about....
Then piston guided rods...... with an offset ground and under side cut crank the bores could be spaced out even more....
All it takes is $$$$
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Y2KZX12R
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whitehendrix
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posted January 30, 2009 05:29 PM
you're riduculous with the shit you do. 
amazing.. awesome tolerances. kinda curious as to what this thing looks like!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 30, 2009 06:45 PM
quote:
you're riduculous with the shit you do.
amazing.. awesome tolerances. kinda curious as to what this thing looks like!
I forget who said this first but....
"if you love your work you'll never work a day in your life"
The tool is a Nikken MAC boring bar for a CAT40 spindle. I use the 5 axis cnc machine to do the boring. It uses a Trigon WBGT insert. So it cuts SMOOOOOTH and FAST !!!
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Y2KZX12R
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2000redrocket
Pro
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posted January 30, 2009 08:37 PM
the guy that is building my duster engine just got a 5 axis cnc two years ago.
he is always finding new ways to make things better. you guys useing these things are great. i do not know how someone who builds anything with out a cnc can know what he is building. i now know i will have a engine that will last on its own unless i do something stupid. keep up the great work y2k
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KZScott
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posted January 30, 2009 09:40 PM
hmmm huge offset bores with chambers to match, plus pistons that fill as much of the new chamber as possible eh? 18:1 CR coming right up? new exotic fuel of the month, desile lol
do you think you could go with an 88mm or larger bore on the 12?
Damn Jim, keep up the awesome "not work" 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 31, 2009 05:15 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 31 Jan 2009 13:16
quote:
the guy that is building my duster engine just got a 5 axis cnc two years ago.
he is always finding new ways to make things better. you guys useing these things are great. i do not know how someone who builds anything with out a cnc can know what he is building. i now know i will have a engine that will last on its own unless i do something stupid. keep up the great work y2k
What shiop is doing the engine? 340? 360?
Were doing afew very cool vintage old stuff right now. A Pontiac Ram Air V 400 , a BOSS 429, a Holman/Moodey Med riser FE engine, several gurney westlake SBF engines....
I'd have to say the RAV is the coolest of the bunch.
Scott, is an offset billet block in your future? I have written a program for windowing the factory and offset billet zx12 and busa blocks. 88-89 mm might be possable but the bottom end would really determine that.
My current project is converting a set of SB2.2 heads from a Sprint cup engine to a GT1 roadrace engine. Were tuning it now, it would be a great street rod engine.
The SB2.2 engines would make great street engines. The engines and parts are cheap now on ebay because they cant run them any more. And the ports are very small with great velocity.
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Y2KZX12R
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KZScott
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posted January 31, 2009 08:27 AM
maybe... but not for a couple yrs. if i go with an offset block i would put a big crank in it too(max out displacement). right now i want to stay below 1350cc for lsr. my budget is saying do the chassis work and get you to do the exh valves and seats this winter and get a 2.6mm crank next winter. maybe get you to do a cnc port job then too.....
speaking of big cranks, have you delt with anything bigger than the typical 4.6mm or the bit more rare 5mm? the ex Muzzy bike that Wolf racing has is running a 7.6mm crank(87mm bore 63mm crank). its the only one im aware of (and thats not really saying much) that has such a big crank in a 12R. common in busas to go that big, but as far as i know not the 12R. do you need a longer cam chain to go that big? move the motor mounts? ect?
hmm 89mm bore and 63mm crank make a 1567cc 12R...
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted January 31, 2009 11:15 AM
pete is building me another 440. the cnc probe to map the block is great. now everything is as close to where it was intended to be as it can be or dead on even.
the heads need work. the "other "guy had the intake valves sunk in .040 below the ex cause the valves were 042 shorter. so new seats correct length valves and one chamber needs the seats ground out and the bridge re welded. there was not any metal between the seats and they sagged. that is where my couple of 1/10s off went.1/3 of the intake was not near the bridge side of the seat. i am sure the ex vlv was as bad.
the cam was at installed at 104 and my rods are 6.7" the dwell time is more than a short rod engine and there should be hp there at 107 or 108 since the piston was not mooving much with it opening that eairly.
got je pistons and carillo K series rods. pistons 50g lighter than old pistons. rods 30g lighter than the stock rods.
when the heads are done i am thinking it will flow more than the old 335cfm average. i will take 5 cfm more. everything should be better and it better go more than 45 passes. the other guys stuff had a inner valve spring brake and float the valve and pop the head off(why the one combustion chamber still needs fixed he did not fix it correctly). and this last time #3 piston had the ringland pop off at the endgap and cracked the liner.
pete wants this to be his engine so the only thing that is getting used is the crank and cam. he is intrested what it will do with the same cam. me also. i was happy with 10.30 at 130mph. if i get that back and it stays together for a couple of years i figure i win. if it goes faster i will take that as a bonus. i just do not want to end up in the 9s. i also do not want it to scare my 12r. but they both pull the wheels up off the line so i am cool with that.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 01, 2009 08:08 AM
Scott, funny you bring up Wolf Racing... I'm doing a head for Wolf Racing in Austrailia right now. The bike is a 1427 thou so I dont know if its the same bike. They may have more than one?
RR sounds like you have a plan.
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Y2KZX12R
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KZScott
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posted February 01, 2009 10:05 AM
Australia or Austria? the Wolf racing im talking about has a 1427 and a 1498. the big one is the tube chassis bike.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 01, 2009 12:43 PM
oops.. Australia... ya know, where the kangaroos are
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Y2KZX12R
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KZScott
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posted February 01, 2009 02:28 PM
ok I was mixed up there. we are indeed talking about the same race team(not sure why i thought they were in Austria). their 1498 is the ex Muzzy bike. tube chassis, lectrons ect. the 1427 is a "normal framed" bike running a big shot of nitrous.
http://www.wolfracing.com.au/
is the work being done to the Wolf head classified? Last i heard they were running a 150 shot on it
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
whitehendrix
Zone Head
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Posts: 757
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posted February 02, 2009 09:40 PM
wonder if i'd benefit from bigger buckets? probably not, as i'm retaining stock cams.. i do want to install some APE cam gears tho.. Hmmm..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
KZScott
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posted February 02, 2009 10:01 PM
I wouldnt get OS buckets if i was keeping stock cams. they are only really needed for huge cams. adjustable sprockets are a plus on any build tho 
Any more news Jim?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Y2KZX12R
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posted February 03, 2009 05:27 AM
Scott, Its a stg 2 with big valves bronze seats. They are spraying it but not that much.
WH, bigger buckets are only needed for high velocity cam profiles. (high lift short duration)
where the lobe overruns the edge of the bucket. Stock cams dont need bigger buckets.
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brickman
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posted February 03, 2009 02:05 PM
would there be any benefit to os buckets with the 385 lift 252 duration? cams in a 12. they are not that much bigger than stock. but they work well with a 1287 motor. and carpenter big valve head. if i could just get it to stop snapping exhaust valve's. i thought it would be the intake valve's that i was going to have problem's with being that they are ti and being sprayed. but they have held up well.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 03, 2009 02:38 PM
Nope, no need for o/s buckets on that cam.
Just as a ball park rule of thumb, you need a L/D ratio of about 1.6 or higher and over about .405" lift to worry about it.
.385"/252=1.52
.390"/245=1.59
.405"/252= 1.60
.415"/258=1.60
.425"/264=1.6
So the megacycle .415"/252=1.64 will need o/s buckets.
On your exhaust valves.... are you running too much seat pressure? Are you running good stainless valves with a wide exhaust seat? Keeping the A/F on the rich side?
You should also really have bronze seats.
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Y2KZX12R
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brickman
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posted February 03, 2009 03:11 PM
this well sound kind of crazy. but but # 3 was the only one that had bronze seats. bob must have done them the last time the exhaust valves on that one let go. and it's got ti intake and ss exhaust. carpenter done the head. with his springs and ti retainers. i well be going with all bronze seats this time. for the record i am pretty sure its been rider error. big spray and high rpms. i'll put some pics of the head up. i just knead to learn how. working on it now. thanks for the info.
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
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posted February 03, 2009 08:04 PM
thanks Jim! and yeppers Scott, i already called APE.. when i get some extra $$ a set of (discontinued but cheap) 7-R gears will be making their way to the shop.
being that they're press-on, i'm kinda wondering what i'll need to do to install them..
obviously, i'll need a press. i hope i don't F them up 
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted February 03, 2009 08:36 PM
Had a local machine shop do mine for about $50 i think
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
brickman
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted February 04, 2009 04:49 PM
Edited By: brickman on 5 Feb 2009 00:59
i give up on the pic
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brickman
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Posts: 294
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posted February 04, 2009 05:34 PM
Edited By: brickman on 5 Feb 2009 02:20
...
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