whitehendrix
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posted January 07, 2009 06:01 PM
HAHAAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHA lmao
not exactly what i meant, but you run with that one 
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Duct tape is the handyman's secret
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occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
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ill sell it -KZScott
  
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KZScott
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posted January 07, 2009 08:06 PM
 Edited By: KZScott on 8 Jan 2009 04:26
trust me, im still learning(i just read a lot and only have a bit of real expirience), Karl is way further ahead
oh and the experts tell me using a spacer plate to lower CR is the wrong way. it makes your squish way too big to be effective unless you use a piston that was designed for use with it (extra thick piston crown) much better way is to do a little combustion chamber work if you dont go for turbo pistons. a little unshrouding of the valves to make your combustion chamber bigger to lower CR as well as improve flow at low valve lift. win win, and you can do it with a $20 dremmel knock off
as far as hot ass girl, im going to go with the one BESIDE Karl, not Karl. shes just more my type 
off topic, but i didnt think you would mind wh
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 08, 2009 10:17 AM
Thats very true about using a spacer to lower compression. A dished piston with proper squish will require less ignition timing and make more power.
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entropy
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posted January 08, 2009 11:39 AM
quote:
Eliza gave me the new Guns n' Roses CD for christmas 
My #2 Son caught a good one
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flite leader
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posted January 08, 2009 12:52 PM
i always use v blocks...always
you can also make an inexpensive jig of installing 1 new guide in a block of metal
that u can easily set up a dial mike to check
guides dont wear out that quickly
the biggest enemy is side thrust
using a old valve in a old guide is like checkin for skidmarx
crap
if i have suspect guides.......................replace
if i have suspect valves........................replace
if more tha a few either wway are suspect......................replace
no mix or match
only on a street engine would i differ
on a race engine ALL the above
to date ive never tagged a valve w a piston
proper piston to head clearance
proper "fly cut" piston...............so far NO problem
[yeah i know road race engines dont run 15...16...17 to 1 compression]
did have a problem of an exhaust valve separating
until i learned proper valve stack height with as little seat pressure as possible
Great lesson
[evidenced by the fact Ducati =no valve springs with minmal seat pressures]
same lesson helps with NOT having bent or "pregnant" valve springs
no less i never reuse bent or bowed valve springs
they inject side pressure to the stem..............not good
i would Never use a spring thats NOT Straight ! ! ! !
[there are essentially 4 different types of springs.............another post another day]
i can understan drag racing ...................hitting the limiter
road racing ........ seldom most engines have a built in "over rev" 1000 or 1500 rpm
where they can live briefly w/o damage
evidenced by the "pass " button in F1 racing......................IRL
that provides 30seconds of More HP
in races that average an hour & more....... youd think that they would have more than
30 seconds available........................so it is
i use kerosene [flammable but less than gas]
i also use a dummy spark plug....................ground flat to the base threads CAREFULLY
essentially removing all electrodes
then fill with epoxy & grind it smooth & flat
it then becomes a "standard" i can use each cylinder
does not trap fluid or air down beside the center electrode
when cc'ing each chamber it give me a consistent accurate reading....evry time ! ! ! ! !
[i aint giving up all my tips]
i always lap the valves.......................done correctly helps immensely
takes time but they will seal
pour in kero...................leaks not good
doesnt leak.........................G O A L ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
no i dont beat my valves with a no bounce hammer !
if someone is still using stck zx12r cams [Good specs]
on a turbo or NOS motor still HP to be gained
i truly dont understand bent valves
with an aftermarket HI lift cam.............................possible
maybe the extra lift is creating problems
otherwise me thinks set up
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KZScott
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posted January 08, 2009 01:18 PM
She IS a keeper
wh on my build last winter my "13:1 CR pistons" ended up being about 12.5:1. i had no base gasket (about half a point gain in cr) and the head was milled .005" (quarter point gain in cr maybe?) but with the chamber mods instead of being around 13.5:1 - 14:1 it was 12.5:1.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
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posted January 08, 2009 05:47 PM
i will DEFINITELY agree on the hot chick.. WOW!!!
she looks very similar to a model from a bike mag a few months back.
Karl, LOVE the bright green kawi hat
i planned on using turbo pistons, but APE also suggested adding to the base gasket to lower CR. it kinda didn't make sense to me, but i also thought "hell, they SHOULD know about this stuff.. i should be able to trust their word.."
squish and quench are essentially the same thing right? i suppose that i would be adding to that squish measurement regadless of a thicker head gasket or base gasket then?
the squish thing and crowned pistons makes sense tho.. being that i'm guessing more squish is more power? thats what i read, anyway.. turbulance and whatnot....
as far as "unshrouding the valves" ... what would that entail? i assume that'd be like adding a few CC's to a SBC head for more area? removing metal in the dome?
i have a nice pneumatic die grinder and my Matco carbide bits are bored i think.
guess i'd just need something to measure the dome displacement in order to attain accurate and uniform numbers on all cylinders? (CC-ing heads on V8's..)
thanks again!! and also, for a REAL actual hot chick!!
and flite.. dude.. ya.. don't give away ALL your top build secrets and all!! keep a few of them to keep you ahead of the game
oh.. FYI, that "pass" button F1 incorporates increases allowable boost to create another 50 BHP. it has nothing to do with rev limits.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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KZScott
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posted January 08, 2009 07:19 PM
quote:
i planned on using turbo pistons, but APE also suggested adding to the base gasket to lower CR. it kinda didn't make sense to me, but i also thought "hell, they SHOULD know about this stuff.. i should be able to trust their word.."
only if the turbo piston is "taller" the make them taller so they have more material between the piston pin and the top of the piston. if you didnt use a spacer your piston would probly hit the head. if you use a spacer with normal pistons you squish/ quench height is too big. ive been told it looses its effectiveness of preventing detonation bigger than .040" someone may want to correct me there if im wrong
quote:
squish and quench are essentially the same thing right? i suppose that i would be adding to that squish measurement regadless of a thicker head gasket or base gasket then?
same thing
thicker base gasket or head gasket and sometimes having the rods resized(can shorten the rod a touch) will increase your measurement
quote:
the squish thing and crowned pistons makes sense tho.. being that i'm guessing more squish is more power? thats what i read, anyway.. turbulance and whatnot....
not really, too much squish is bad like i said above
quote:
as far as "unshrouding the valves" ... what would that entail? i assume that'd be like adding a few CC's to a SBC head for more area? removing metal in the dome?
yup, removing material, i can post some pics of mine
quote:
i have a nice pneumatic die grinder and my Matco carbide bits are bored i think.
more high tech than required :P
quote:
guess i'd just need something to measure the dome displacement in order to attain accurate and uniform numbers on all cylinders? (CC-ing heads on V8's..)
i used Karls method for checking CR, only did 2 cylinders, but they were within a few drops. doing all 4 this time
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
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posted January 08, 2009 07:55 PM
hopefully the masters dont mind me posting these ones
from a few yrs ago, Jims (y2k) head. pics originally posted in his zx14r build thread
from Dougs head, i think this was on his turbo 12. the worlds fastest bagger
and mine. you can only unshroud as far as your head gasket goes. i have a 3mm over piston kit so i was able to take away quite a bit(my head wouldnt work on a stock bore bike now). i marked out where the head gasket went with a sharpie.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
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posted January 10, 2009 05:19 PM
ahh.. thats what i though you were talkin about. dougs ports look cavernous. lol
you say i'd need more high tech equipment.. i'm assuming a 5 axis?
HEYYYY JIMMMMM!!!!! :P
(sadly, he doesn't have a program for my head. i already spoke to him months ago!!)
Hmm.. i'm starting to think maybe it's a good thing i have 2 motors.. hopefully i won't have to turn one into a paperweight to learn, however!!! BUT, i've got extra parts i guess if i screw up.
i do not know the Karl method of anything, sadly. not CC'ing nor CR calculating or anything else 
those holes in the sides of your exhaust ports.. looks like the Kleen air injection ports?
could it be beneficial to epoxy those (or possibly weld?) them shut and then port/polish? or are they really a non-issue with flow...
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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entropy
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posted January 10, 2009 07:10 PM
quote:
i do not know the Karl method of anything, sadly. not CC'ing nor CR calculating or anything else
WH: the method I use to determine CR is relatively easy, with results that are VERY accurate & reproducible.
Just last night I did the motor I am installing now.. Took less than an hour.
#2 cyl was 16.00:1, #3 was 16.05:1
There some tips to make it easier, lemme know when you want to do it and i'll share what little info i have.
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KZScott
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posted January 10, 2009 07:28 PM
im saying your equipment is much more high tech than what i personally used(my el cheapo dremmel knock off did the task of all my light porting/chamber work). you are good to go 
how i calculated actual compression ratio of my motor. smear some thick grease on the cylinder wall and bring piston to tdc so it scrapes the grease and collects in the rings making them sealed completely. wipe away excess. (do 2 pistons at a time in a regular inline 4). bolt on cylinder head with the same thickness head gasket you will be using when its running. (your valves must be sealed very well) level the motor F-B, L-R so there is no where for air to get caught as you will be filling the combustion chamber with liquid. used tinted alcohol (i put some blue food colouring in some rubbing alcohol cause i like blue ) and a burette and fill the cyls thru the sparkplug hole to the top of the threads. plug hole = 1.2ml subtract that from the amount of liquid you used. hopefully the cylinders are very close(if not you may need to do more combustion chamber work)
my motor as an example:
27cc or ml to top of threads minus spark plug(1.2) =25.8cc
86mm bore 55.4mm stroke. volume = 321.8 (x4=1287cc)
321.8/25.8=12.47 about 12.5:1CR
yes sir the "kleen air" system. Jim told me not to worry about them, i asked the same question you did. some people do weld them though.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted January 10, 2009 10:22 PM
KZ is right on the money wrt procedure, but i would change the formula a bit:
27cc or ml to top of threads minus spark plug(1.2) =25.8cc
86mm bore 55.4mm stroke. volume = 321.8 (x4=1287cc)
(321.8+25.8)/25.8= about 13.5:1CR
I wish MY motor could gain a CR point that easy!
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KZScott
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posted January 10, 2009 10:52 PM
what? hold up. my motor is really at 13.5:1??? I posted the same thing(numbers and all) when i first did my calcs last yr and nobody said anything....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 10, 2009 11:15 PM
quote:
what? hold up. my motor is really at 13.5:1??? I posted the same thing(numbers and all) when i first did my calcs last yr and nobody said anything....
yep, i missed it, musta been asleep at the wheel!
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KZScott
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posted January 11, 2009 11:03 AM
ok, well no harm done. glad i have it figured out, and that i wont tell other guys to do it wrong!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
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posted January 11, 2009 03:36 PM
hahha AWESOME!!!!
i just read your CR thread, scott. very nice..
i'm not sure of the volumetric similarities.. you're almost at twice what mine is just in displacement! (1287(i think) Vs 749) at least i have something to refer to now!!
i guess any grease will work? like doing a wet compression test eh? same ring-sealing effect..
i'm guessing a used head gasket (in "good" condition) will work for the testing? i think i'd like to try this on the NA motor in the garage just to get a feel for how it's done. it's ripped apart anyway, so i won't be wasting a gasket. that will eventually be the motor i do the turbo build with. it's in better shape than the one in the bike now.
willmedical needles render an accurate measurement? my buddy is a diabetic, so i have access to them. not sure what they displace, however..
i got ya now on the hi-tech stuff!! lol..the carbide bits are nasty little bastards. they'll take alot away VERY quickly if one isn't watchful. i played with porting and polishing my XR-50 a while back, simply because A. it was mine B. i was bored, and C. i figured i couldn't screw it up THAT bad. if i did, heads were cheap.
it honestly didn't make a noticable difference on a 2.5HP machine, but i learned a little about the effectiveness of the material removal with that die grinder!! haha i DID use a dremel for the final blending and polishing. looked pretty nice, and i always got an odd look when i told ppl it was ported and polished.
i've been thinking about what i call port tuning.. now, i don't think it'll be very effective on a boosted machine, and honestly to me, i think building a turbo motor so far seems easier than building a tight hi-HP N/A mill, so i think this is a good way for me to break myself in...
anyway, on that port tuning.. i've seen where someone will port thehell out of one intake runner and epoxy the other, theoretically making one port for low to mid range power, and the other will become effective from upper mid to top end.
make any sense? this is something i'd love to research as well, but theres not much on it.. now, i'm no where NEAR ready to take on something like that!! haha.. i'll stick with a nice, "loose" turbo motor until i prove to myself i can do it without adding skylights and aftermarket rod inspection ports to the front of my case.
so much to learn.. wow..i think i'll have to make some sort of little formula page for myself with the info i gather from you's guys and whereever else..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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KZScott
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posted January 11, 2009 04:34 PM
Im guessing medical needles would have to be accurate or the manufacturer could be in for a shit load of law suits lol
I used a new headgasket when i checked CR and squish, re used it for final assembly. it sealed fine, but i may have been lucky. as long as the headgasket is the same thickness as what you plan on using and seals, you should be fine with an old one. if your new head gasket is thinner CR will go up and squish and PTV will be tighter.
no expirience with port tuning, but i would think you would have plenty of velocity with a turbo setup, so no need to epoxy the ports? a clean up wont hurt anything as long as you dont change the port shape. when you get into changing the port shape you better have a flow bench and dyno for testing or you could go backwards in power very easily.
Jim could probly set us straight with the big port and epoxied port going to the same piston setup
I have a plastic folder with all my electronics instructions, most of the factory manual printed off, and lots of pages of notes. many from Karl and Jim
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 12, 2009 05:34 PM
One of the added bennifits of a turbo is the intake port pressurization while the intake valve is closed.
Everyone knows that the added filling and pre pressurization of the cylinder increases VE dramatically with a turbo.
But a turbo or supercharger also creates a more homoginious mixture with more motion in the chamber.
A portion of the fuel charge collects behind the valve when its closed. In a N/A engine when the intake valve comes off its seat theres a sudden pressure drop or "wave" that started from the downward motion of the piston earlier but the intake port cant see it untill the valve opens. So the fuel sitting behind the valve has a mad rush into the lower pressure area (the cylinder) very quickly at first and then the port depressurizes in a wave that is much more calm as the depressurization wave travels up the port to the end of the stack. The actual flow past the bellmouth of the throttle body doesnt start to happen untill the entire port is depressurized. Think of it like a slinkey. Remember those?
With a turbo the air is pressurized behind the valve so the initial rush past the valve when it first opens is even more violent. A n/a engine only has one atmosphere (14.7 psi) of pressure to work with. A turbo can easily double or tripple that. So you end up with a very homoginious mixture, even more so than in a n/a engine.
Port volume and velocity.... thats a very inviolved one to get into tonight
I'm getting a cold and feal like crap. Being at the Giants Eagles game drinking beer yesterday didnt help. I'm hitting the hay.
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brendasue555
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posted January 13, 2009 02:58 AM
I totaly agree with WH these guys know their shit big time! I can't believe how lucky I am that I have had a chance to actually meet a few of them. And even luckier to have the help and support that I have had. Great group of guys and combined bring hundreds of years of experience to the table.
Lucky us for sure.
____________
Brenda
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 13, 2009 04:41 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 13 Jan 2009 12:46
Oops, The primairy pressure drop in the cylinder that the valve sees first is from the exhaust scavenging of the cylinder during overlap, then the piston wave takes over.
Theres some video of a running engine and all this on the net somewhere. I remember seeing it a while ago.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted January 13, 2009 10:41 AM
Jim, I would love to hear you compare the way a nitrous motor works to a turbo. do you have a special seat cut for a turbo inlet valve seat as well?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
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posted January 13, 2009 05:56 PM
awesome. thanks for the input Jim! it may be a year or 2 til i feel like tackling a big-power NA motor, just to get the feel from building a turbo motor.. like i said.. if my PTV and squish is a tiny bit off, it almost (to me) won't matter to the point of being detrimental as opposed to if i were building a motor where there was light contact with the piston, as i've read here and other places.. i think Doug or Vincent had mentioned it once.. which, to me is astounding..
amazing it doesn't break anything when rod stretch and rock come into play.. (is is there a way to calculate stretch and squish Vs rock-affected squish?)
oh. i've seen that vid.. pretty wild. and definitely understand the waves as well.. SOOOO many things have waves and whatnot it's almost mind boggling.. like tuning valvesprings to harmonics and actuation frequencies and runner lengths and expansion chambers (more 2-strokish i guess..)
intake and exhaust pulses i think are a tip of the iceberg!!
now, noting what scott just said, would it be wise it have a multi angle or "custom" seat i suppose on my heads? i'm SURE theres benefits to it, i'm just uncertain as to what they are. should i look at exotic seat materials? i'm almost thinking i won't make enough power to render the need for BE-CU seats like Scott might use on a sprayed motor..
crazy stuff.. i need more time in the day.
i'm working 2 jobs right now.. and, like you Jim, i'm sick as a dog
no rest tho.. noo rest. haha.. money is more important than that i guess.
hope ya feel better bro! Scott, Karl, everyone, as always, thanks for the insane and damn-near unfathomable input.. keep it coming!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted January 13, 2009 07:17 PM
slight correction. im not made of money so i wont be getting BE-CU seats(or TI or inconel valves, just SS) Bronze are more my price range and do allmost as good of a job(way better than steel anyway) about $10 a pop for a bronze seat. Jim has some pretty good seat cuts, I think Karl picked up 10% power gain one build from one of Jims special seat cuts??
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
whitehendrix
Zone Head
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Posts: 757
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posted January 14, 2009 04:44 PM
haha.. i hear ya on the money tree shit bro. haha..one day, when i'm rich, i'll buy ya a set of BE-CU seats.
Hmm.. "special" seat cut, eh? must be special to pick up 10%.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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