KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 27, 2008 10:55 AM
comparing blocks. chamfer vs no chamfer
got dads block back from Lees Performance a few days ago. its been bored and replated to use 86mm JE 1287 pistons  . we have intentions of stroking it someday so I got them to just bore and replate with no chamfer at the bottom of the block. this should allow better skirt support and help prevent scuffing when it gets a big stroker crank. gotta give Jim (y2k) credit for the trick, I read it in one of his posts awhile back 
a few pics comparing my 1287 block to dads 1287 block (cell phone quality srry)
just need to figure out the cam cap issue, get the head cleaned up, and i can start assembly to check clearances.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
|
posted December 27, 2008 11:17 AM
chamfer only helps in getting the pistons into the block
a liitle more strength to be gain .................not much
really depends on the skirt load & at what RPM
in consideration to the rod angle
a situation where putting the engine together .........turning it over by hand
& chacking all bottom end clearances
rod the cylinder wall
& piston to crank clearance
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 27, 2008 11:19 AM
nice!
i like the idea of a tiny/no chamfer rather than the typical big one.
better put the pistons in the block before putting the block on the cases, eh?
may be a bitch to fit the cyl over the pistons in the traditional way wo the chamfer?
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
|
posted December 27, 2008 11:25 AM
that chamfer offers a modicum of clearance
piston skirts to top of crank......................not much
but Some
something that has to be check on a stroker as opposed to a bored motor
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 27, 2008 11:28 AM
definately be doing it that way! ive done it both ways and the pistons in block first is WAY easier. i wouldnt even try to fit the cylinder over the pistons with no chamfer. espicially since i do it by hand/tiny wood sticks. im not that talented yet :P
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
chavcat
Zone Head
Posts: 524
|
posted December 28, 2008 07:32 AM
Scott - had you considered modifying the sleeve base (machining a 'hole/cutaway') between 2 & 3 to allow for pumping pressure?
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 28, 2008 09:01 AM
Ive thought about it, im not sure if it could be done accurately enough by hand with a dremmel. too much other stuff on the go right now to get extra machining done.
Jim? you did it on your 1375. can it be done by hand?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted December 28, 2008 10:10 AM
Yes, I windowed my block on all 3 webs. I have a program written to do it on the CNC. Busa blocks as well. Yes you can do it by hand or on a Bridgeport. The first one I did Before we had the 5 axis CNC machine I did on a Bridgeport.
Flite, again, you are offering advice as an expert yet you have never built a stroker zx12r.
Not chamfering the block has nothing to do with crank clearance or strength. Theres enough clearance and strength to the block on 60mm strokers. It has to do with the location of the lowest contact point of the cylinder wall on the piston skirt.
Not chamfering the block after boring is to lower the contact point and adds piston stability.
Again, KZ can not read your posts anymore. You are on his ignore list. You you must not be posting to help him because you allready knew this.
So why do you still post useless riddles and jibberish?
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 28, 2008 11:01 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 28 Dec 2008 19:02
quote:
So why do you(flite) still post useless riddles and jibberish?
LMFAO!!!
good one, Jim!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
|
posted December 28, 2008 11:32 AM
Edited By: tcchin on 28 Dec 2008 19:32
He who approacheth the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see.
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 28, 2008 12:51 PM
quote:
He who approacheth the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see.
bahahahahahahahahaha "BOD"!
flite can't answer those questions, he'll just post a buncha VERY poor haiku.
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 28, 2008 03:10 PM
Thanks Jim, ill try my best with a dremmel and cut off wheels. it will make fitting pistons in easier at the very least . about how much power is "gained" by reducing the pumping losses this way? im thinking ill try it on both blocks. why not? 
some info from your old 1375 build thread Jim :
Ok, window size is .680" high .950"wide. with a 1/4" radius at the top corners of the window. All three sides of the window are are fully radiused 1/8".
The 1/4" top corner radius is important for taking the load from the piston skirt due to the extra stroke. The 1/8" wall radius is important for smooth flow.
One note on the window size: I should have been more clear on that. the .680" height includes the radius of the window. So you would need to be slightly smaller so you have room to radius the cut. So mill to about .650" or so and then hand blend for air flow.
The width of .950" is a "cut to" and then blend the radius.
Its hard to describe this.
The finished block. final window size is .650"deep amd .940"wide. Then hand rounded.
The nicasil plating is excelent. Barely any chipping and the chipping that did happen was tiny tiny chips.
Not that it even mattered because it was getting blended on the edges anyway.
The total window area is almost double now.
The block window has this rowboat shape \_______/ from the factory.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted December 28, 2008 04:27 PM
My memory is fuzzy on this, but do I recall that you don't need to window all 3 areas? The only reason I ask is that if doing it by hand, that would make it much easier.
Shane
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 28, 2008 04:51 PM
yes you dont need to do the middle one
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 28, 2008 04:59 PM
KZ,
my advice is NOT to screw with windowing the block now.
Focus yr attention on the basic stuff and leave that for when you get all the basics done to yr satisfaction.
I am sure it works fine (Jim knows his stuff), but basics - basics - basics!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 28, 2008 05:40 PM
its not on the priority list(tons of other stuff first), but its something i would like to do
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted December 28, 2008 07:02 PM
KZ, Its not a big hp gain to be had. I agree with Karl, I wouldnt worry about it now.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC