mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted December 12, 2008 05:38 PM
zx12 motor into a zx10 frame???
I've got an 02 zx12 with a carpenter built 1290 and i also own an 04 zx10.
I want to put the zx12 engine into the zx10 chassis. I'm figuring i'll have to use the airbox from the zx10 and use it on the zx12 motor. Additionally, use all the electronics from the twelve and modify the brackets for mounting.
Why do this? Simple, it would have excellent hp to weight ratio. It would be fun to ride and be a sleeper to boot. Some would simply say to build a big bore motor for the zx10. I would say thats valid advice. However, i know some of the members on this board live at a mile high location. Besides it would be hoot out motoring everyone on a trackday.
Questions:
1. Has anyone done this and if so what were the pitfalls?
2. How much heavier is the zx12 motor vs. zx10?
3. anyone have the motor dimensions of each?
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 13, 2008 11:43 AM
 Edited By: flite leader on 13 Dec 2008 21:11
the frame is Not designed to handle that HP
the zx12 motor was designed for a monoqoque frame
so you mounting points will be different
a 12 & 10 stack are very close on HP
im sure modified i would be inclined to give the edge to the 10
remember all the R & D that went into the 10
when essentially the 12 was & IS standing still
would make a really nice smak talkin project tho
i think it would be a devil to ride tho on the track.........bad handling
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted December 14, 2008 01:21 AM
quote:
the frame is Not designed to handle that HP
Let me see............. ------------------------> WRONG and in a big bad way.... My 10R makes 174 and my 12R made 176 I believe.... It's not the power that would be the problem.. It's the size..
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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trikchop
Expert Class
Posts: 247
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posted December 14, 2008 05:50 PM
your gonna have to hack the shit outta the right side of the frame to goet the valve cover to clear. i wouldnt waste a 10 frame. it might be cool to do to a 636 though.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted December 15, 2008 04:36 AM
I've seen a 6R with a 12 engine, so I'm sure you could wedge it into a 10 with enough time, patience, and money.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted December 15, 2008 11:17 AM
Not sure but I believe that most of the zx12's weight is in the motor.
You will carry that weight to your new project.
I'm betting ready to ride weight will not be much difference than a regular zx12.
If you get a chance put that motor on a scale an let me know if I'm wrong.
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 15, 2008 11:34 AM
Edited By: flite leader on 15 Dec 2008 19:40
quote:
quote:
the frame is Not designed to handle that HP
Let me see............. ------------------------> WRONG and in a big bad way.... My 10R makes 174 and my 12R made 176 I believe.... It's not the power that would be the problem.. It's the size..
yeah & motogp bikes weigh less & have MORE HP
700HP turbo bikes do have handling problems
cant say they dont
fuel bikees are built with that in mind or just stick a fuel motor in anything
expect it to run like a vespa
the chain side of the bike usually needs to be reinforced caused the frame gets tweaked
under full throttle
racers have had problems with handling even in cars when excess power cant be handle by the chassis in many forms of racing
& im wrong
go argue with the gurneys....andrettis...... hines
some wont even track straight
i never said dont do it
he asked the disadvantages
most guys will slap on a steering dampner NOT realizing the bike aint tracking straight
cause its tweahed out at the countershaft & swingarm pivot
i could explain but then i get accused of knowing it all.................hardly
but i do know about that
in fact the 1100 zook was a prime example
not this season but the 2 seasons b4 ducati strengthened the left side of their motoGP frame
a bike without question the HP leader motoGP..... the coming season CARBON FIBER
on such a short wheelbase...... the exact disadvantages are MORE notceable
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 15, 2008 06:37 PM
i would say if hp is close to the same on both engines then the 12s torque will rule the day and or make the 10r frame squirm a bit. also if the air box area is smaller then the 12s air box area then you could have issues also. my bro and i put a 94 zx9 into a 93 zx7 frame. what a great sleeper. 10.8 in the 1/4 back then on a 750 in out area was un herd of. people askk what we did i say pipe and a jet kit. 50% walked away and said dam mine will not do that. the other half came back and said try again. then i showed them the difference in the 7 and 9 engine.
so gene got the head ported with big valves. after that it ran like crap. you could only tune for one thing. so if the volume on the 10 is a lot smaller be carefull if the same way cool 100ftlb on a zx10. wheelie bike
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted December 16, 2008 10:39 AM
I'm not sure the zx12 motor weighs alot more than a zx10 engine due to mine having a lighter crank and no counter balancer. These mods lightened the motor by approximately 8 lb's.
I can certainly see the potential negatives of having to much motor and not enough frame.
I'm looking forward to making this happen.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 16, 2008 11:07 AM
see noboddy told you not tooooo
you awsk about possible problems
folks contributed
you will make up your mind as you see fit................................
if you get it mounted & it doesnt want to jump out of the frame
have a friend ride behind you & try roll ons in certain gears
at speeds you wont go to jail with
have them take videos just to see if anything is twistin or tweakin
not a good day for something to break at 100 + mph
the video may actually help
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted December 16, 2008 11:50 AM
Thanks, flight leader I'll give the video idea a try.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 17, 2008 01:22 PM
i know youve seen the ruby led's
gunsights......levels etc
those at the walgreens.......dollar gen are cheap
in a dark gargage..... your bike up on the rear stand
led's placed on the front &/or rear axle points
at the swingarm &/or countershaft
at the triple trees
whatever or where ever you question & want to know whats going on
a length of pipe 1 foot or 10 foot long [usually right & a great index for leverage]
strap ......or attach to swingarm or wheels or tyres
add 5.... 10.......ets weights
establish ponts when no weights or bar
points after you add weights & bar{ leverage]
will establish the degree of deviation torque has at that point
just the weight will show deviation..... a measurable ammont.....
whereas if you just pull on the bar you wont know how much
the amount of deviation will surprise you & you will see how handling is easily affected
& how its very easy fronthe front NOT to track with the rear
most think its the front not tracking
most dont know its the rear thats tracking out of line aas a direct result
of torque & hp being applied to just 1 side of the bike
they also dont acknowledge 2 axis are affected at the rear
+ squirm at rubber contact.................................houston we have a problem
no less torque is multipled
a modified 12k...... 13 or 14k engine easily 100ft/lbs of torque
multiplied by 2 .... 3..... sometimes 4x is tryin to make it all
a pretzel ! !! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! !!
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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