entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted August 04, 2008 12:57 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 4 Aug 2008 02:14
i was wondering about piston/block clearance w/temp
so i did a lil TChin-type experiment...
my wife didn't even ask what i was doing putting parts in her oven and my measuring stuff spread out in the kitchen. good girl!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
  
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted August 04, 2008 06:19 AM
looks pretty linear. nice stuff.
do you have your wife drugged? lol jk. shes a keeper for sure!!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted August 04, 2008 06:37 AM
Karl, thats too funny!!! The wife saw you with your oven mits on baking pistons and did not say anything! I am suprised she did not slip some muffin mix in the cylinders while you were not looking.
Cool info, thank you much for shareing. Kind of looks fairly linear to me and not too much change, but in a motor I wonder if the piston warms up faster than the block when first started?
I tend to let my motor warm up to what I believe is good operating temp before riding and will not whack it until it is fully warmed and heat soaked.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted August 04, 2008 07:05 AM
quote:
Cool info, thank you much for shareing. Kind of looks fairly linear to me and not too much change, but in a motor I wonder if the piston warms up faster than the block when first started?
I tend to let my motor warm up to what I believe is good operating temp before riding and will not whack it until it is fully warmed and heat soaked.
Gary,
i am 110% with you, warm it up until the motor is truly heat soaked, not just 9pm on the temp gauge.
I am guessing that the piston heats up before the block and that graph shows that it doesn't have to heat up too much faster than the block before it will seize.
I also guess that lo rpm doesn't differentially put as much heat in the piston as big load, so if you slowly warm up both piston & block together you will keep the clearance.
BTW
my lovely little wife DOES HAVE HER LIMITS.
On Fri night i had the block in the dishwasher, getting it clean in prep for the oven.
Wifey opened the dishwasher and saw the block and was honestly, seriously upset.
She was upset that I didn't also fill the dishwaster with a buncha dishes; that i was wasting energy. n/j 
(Estamos en la olla, nessicitamos apreter el cinturon!)
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 04, 2008 07:36 AM
Karl, Was this with RIngs? Also were the Piston and Cylinder Lubricated? The Rings transfer the most heat and the Attachment of the Pistons to the Cylinder wall through the Oil Film also transfer heat! Last, (My Opinion) is that the Movement of the Piston UP and DOWN in the cylinder wall also transfers more heat than the Piston sitting in "1" Place
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted August 04, 2008 08:10 AM
Vince,
i did the piston and block separately.
i was not concerned about the mechanism of heat transfer, rather i was concerned about expansion of the individual components with temp.
the results show that a piston which is 30F hotter than the cyl will be at the same dimension as the cyl if the room temp piston/cyl clearance is .0015-.0018".
pretty scary, eh?
I lost my complete experimental motor 2 years ago by putting my custom JE "87mm" pistons in a Muzzy "87mm" block.
It turned out that the Muzzy 87mm block was really .001" UNDER 87mm and the resulting piston/cyl clearance was about .0012", not .0022" as it should have been.
I blame myself for not measuring the pistons & block before asseembly.
Dr Chin showed me the light!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
|
posted August 04, 2008 12:54 PM
Sounds like a cool test. I'll have to wait until I get home to see the picture. Photobucket is blocked here at work.
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted August 04, 2008 01:27 PM
Yeah, where's the picture of you with your bakers hat, apron, oven mitts, and the
wife in the back ground smiling at you.
Curious, what do you charge for a parts washing/prep and a heat treatment?
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 05, 2008 09:30 AM
Now I understand the Why of the testing! to know the Max size of the Piston vs the cylinder Hole. BUT in the real world, what I was talking about is what goes on! When I was racing my F9R (Kawasaki 350 Bighorn Road Racer 2 stroke single) I had problems witrh the top of the piston growing and seizing. Eventually I turned .5 MM off the diameter of the piston down past the Oil RIng Land and would you believe??> All of the problems went away!! (At least with that problem!!)
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted August 05, 2008 09:46 AM
Very interesting, I did not think of piston height growth.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 05, 2008 11:32 AM
quote:
Very interesting, I did not think of piston height growth.
That too but in my case we took a Rotary Valve engine with an Open Combustion Chamber which used a Side Spark Plug and relocated it to the center with a Squish Band and centered all of the heat in the Middle of the Piston. The Piston head grew so much (Understand that the Piston Bore was over 3 inches) that it siezed the Cylinder Wall. Everything else was fine! I was using 240 W&D Sand paper to make the Cross Hatch on the Piston Skirt to hold more oil onto the Cylinder Wall! In 1978 I had the Only Kawasaki to finish the Light weight 250 100 mile race. The Bike weighed 215 Pounds with a 53 inch wheel base and had quick change sprocket rear wheels (Like on the Dirt Trackers) and originally was Art Bauman Frame. Huge Carb for the time period 44 MM. If I only knew then what I knew now I would have never built the Bike or started out like it ended up! With a TZ 250D Yamaha Engine! That Combo got me my AMA Experts License and put me in the front of the field!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted August 05, 2008 11:57 AM
Tool Cool, Mr. Hill.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC