entropy
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posted May 02, 2008 09:44 PM
 Edited By: entropy on 3 May 2008 03:12
lapping valves: one Garage Barbie making herself useful
I got my experimental head back from Competition CNC (aka Y2K) at 8am.
Jim installed bronze guides & seats, sunk valves and took another .020 off the head. Everything looks SWEET!!!
The seats look perfect but i decided to lap the valves as an experiment to see if i could get my leak down lower than the typical 4-5%. Dr Chin says 1-2% should be obtainable.
The lapping is tedious but at least one of my Garage Barbies was making herself useful, whereas those other 2 lazy sluts just hung around making out.
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osti33
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posted May 02, 2008 10:02 PM
Nice pictures! The head looks great. Nice to see at least one of the barbies pitching in. lol.
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entropy
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posted May 03, 2008 02:11 AM
just filled the ports with water, not a single drop leaked, woo-HOO!
onto cc-ing the combustion chambers.
the song that never ends.
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NOX
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posted May 03, 2008 05:19 AM
Karl is not right.........
Zip loc should get involved in racing, I went through several boxes this spring..........
I HATE lapping valves......., My hands hurt so bad the next day after lapping the valves in the stock head I am using right now..........
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NOX
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posted May 03, 2008 05:21 AM
Karl, if you were not lapping before, you should see some power gains.........
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aliveagain
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posted May 03, 2008 08:07 AM
Didn't they use to polish the combustion chambers to reduce detonation? Don't they do that anymore?
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NOX
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posted May 03, 2008 08:23 AM
Depends on the motor, Brodix found that too much polishing, lost hp........
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woppi
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posted May 03, 2008 10:41 AM
#
verry, verry nice cyl.head !!!!
woppi
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entropy
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posted May 03, 2008 11:52 AM
i haven't lapped valves since i was in HS and worked in a lil Ducati shop.
power gains? that would be nice but this is really just an experiment about leak down.
yes indeed on Zip Lock bags, i go thru a ton of them
my CR is only 15.3:1 as we close in on CR, valve depth, PTV, etc. It needs another .015 or so skim.
This head will prolly have to go back to Jim one more time, depending upon CL & PTV which i'll do tonight.
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KZScott
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posted May 03, 2008 07:33 PM
nice stuff Karl!
plz show how exactly you cc the combustion chambers. i know how to do it, but i want to see your way 
NOX, was it the ports and combustion chambers both that lost hp when polished? or just one or the other?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
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tcchin
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posted May 03, 2008 08:37 PM
Edited By: entropy on 4 May 2008 00:46
Is one of the Barbies dressed up like a priest?
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entropy
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posted May 03, 2008 11:31 PM
quote:
nice stuff Karl!
plz show how exactly you cc the combustion chambers. i know how to do it, but i want to see your way
NOX, was it the ports and combustion chambers both that lost hp when polished? or just one or the other?
KZ,
its kinda hard to show, but i mock up the motor and fill the combustion chamber with a burette thru the spark plug hole. No guessing or assumptions. My 2 measurements yesterday were with in a ml (less than .1 CR).
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entropy
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posted May 03, 2008 11:37 PM
Edited By: entropy on 4 May 2008 01:01
OK time to do PTV
i now have 2 patented TimChim Valve Spring compressors AND a new McM-C jointed dial inticator base:
a close up:
the useful Garage Barbie shit-canning my old magnetic base. The new jointed arm one KICKS ASS!
i could only get to exh CL 104.6 @ .056" PTV
(CAUTION do NOT set yrs this tight unless you are REAL sure of set up ..., I'm told that exh PTV @ .080" is much safer.)
I'll send this experimental head back to Y2K for another 15 thou off the head and sink the valves a bit more. I want my CR back to 16+:1 but i want to also be able to get 102/102 CL's. It'll be close...
the song that never ends 
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entropy
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posted May 03, 2008 11:46 PM
quote:
Is one of the Barbies dressed up like a priest?
nope, sure as hell not!!!!!
Those are her robes from graduation; she won't tell exactly which ceremony but from her conversational skills, i'm guessing middle school.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 04, 2008 10:53 AM
Very nice Tim Chin tool, I like the amount of leverage you have with it, I am sure it makes it easier than Brock's tool. I would love to see it in action! Did you have to modify the cam towers? So many questions so little time. What an Art to motor building!
Thanks for shareing Karl,
Gary
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 04, 2008 10:56 AM
I am suprised the dial indicator is not digital and reads to .000000001"
Just kidding
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entropy
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posted May 04, 2008 02:21 PM
quote:
Very nice Tim Chin tool, I like the amount of leverage you have with it, I am sure it makes it easier than Brock's tool. I would love to see it in action! Did you have to modify the cam towers? So many questions so little time. What an Art to motor building!
Thanks for sharing Karl,
Gary
yep, i cut the end off the cam tower(s) to help get better access for the dial indicator.
Also, the eagle eyed folks will notice that i had the ends of the cams machined down to .750". This also helps get more consistent dial ind measurements.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 05, 2008 04:29 PM
Hey Karl i am an idiot, but when you shift the intake like you said above (I'll assume those cams are pretty hot as well) do you have to be somewhat concerned about the intake side right after TDC. Is there more play in the piston at high RPM that you would be concerned about or is it negligible? What would be the safe clearance and what would you like to see in your motor?
Did you happen to do the leak down before you sent the head off and after lapping the valves? any gains?
Thanks,
Gary
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NOX
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posted May 05, 2008 04:48 PM
Hmm, Bud Light......
Have you found any changes on the type of beverage used while building........?
Experiments would need to be done.......
I assume there could be volunteers.........
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entropy
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posted May 05, 2008 11:39 PM
quote:
Hey Karl i am an idiot, but when you shift the intake like you said above (I'll assume those cams are pretty hot as well) do you have to be somewhat concerned about the intake side right after TDC. Is there more play in the piston at high RPM that you would be concerned about or is it negligible? What would be the safe clearance and what would you like to see in your motor?
Did you happen to do the leak down before you sent the head off and after lapping the valves? any gains?
Thanks,
Gary
gARY,
I am not sure what you mean "shift the intake"??? go to CL=102???
the tightest spot for my intake is about 8-10 degrees after TDC on overlap
after listening to everyone, my PTV min's are I=.040", E=.055" BUT BE CAREFUL!
new Carrillos should keep rod stretch to a min
measure quench for all 4 cyl (my #2, #3 cyl are .002" tighter than #1,#4)
Do PTV after setting lash, make sure that you take into account different shim size.
The valves with the fattest shims have the least PTV
I measure my PTV on #1 I & E valves, but the calculate PTV for ea valve according to its lash, quench, shim size.
I didn't do a leak down, sent the head back to Jim yesterday for a lil tweaking
NOX:
I will experiment with any beer (even fullen Shiner), but i am told Bud Light is not beer, it is a "cool refreshing malted beverage; vaguely beer-like"
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted May 06, 2008 05:04 AM
Yep Karl you understood clearly even though I did not convay it that way. Thanks.
Coors or Coors light = bottled water
Bud light = water from rusty pipes
Shiner Bock = tastey beer
Guiness = Meal in a can
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NOX
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posted May 06, 2008 05:19 AM
I agree..........
Although, I prefer Coors over Bud, ..........
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KZScott
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posted May 06, 2008 02:21 PM
i prefer regular bud, or keiths... but our brew is stronger up here 
Karl, when you have some free time can you do a little write up "for dummies" on how to set cam timing and check clearances? i dont want to be second guessing myself on this stuff when im rushing to put a motor together so i can tune it (learn how to use a data logger) and get to the track
thx!
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
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johnnycheese
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posted May 06, 2008 02:31 PM
Miller
it is UNION MADE
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NOX
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posted May 06, 2008 02:56 PM
LOL
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