mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 06:25 PM
Lock up gone bad
I have an 05 zx10 10"arm slammed over 200hp on spray. The clutch go away quickly on the nos. So I turned to the Muzzy lock-up for help and was not pleased at all the the arms was digging into the pressure plate causing the bike to buck like riding a bull. Some metal buttons would fix this but not supplied with the kit. To make a long story short after only 5 trips to the track I found myself dropping my oil pan to remove bolts that backed out of an $800.00 part and a"OH WELL BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME" from Muzzy.
  
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 06:30 PM
Ouch.
The arms digging into the plate did not cause it to buck........, you had it tuned wrong.......
I never had any issues with my muzzy doing that. How in the hell did bolts back out, and which ones were they? Sounds like there was an installation error.......
Who did you talk to at Muzzy? Is that really all they said?
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 06:54 PM
There were three small bolts that held the bearing carrier to the lockup that came out and I was blessed that they fell into the oil pan. Bolts that were installed from the factory so if there were an error thats where it came from. I talk to Mr. Dave ext. 106 When I replaced the plate the bike ran fine and the bucking came back as the arms start digging again which I was told I had to much weight. which was what it took to stop the bike form slipping on the other end.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 07:00 PM
 Edited By: NOX on 15 Apr 2008 22:39
That is doubtful, knowing how much weight I used to run on a single stage...., and how much Pual Stuart is still running on that same lock up......, with more hp, and more total bike rider weight........, than a zx10
Sounds like you had a wrong set up in the thing......
even with no weight, they will sink into the alum a hair, but that has nothing to do with making it buck......, the bucking is from you having the set up wrong........,
The total package..., gearing, rider input, clutch factors.......(lots of factors), rpm, traction, and more, play a part........
I have seen the muzzy lock up for the 10. It does not lead to much tuning........., I am not a fan of that design at all......
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madmike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted April 15, 2008 07:05 PM
I would listen to Nox... he is the clutch guru!!!
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 07:06 PM
but I am not saying that is what caused the bolts to come out.......,
I am not real sure of what bolts you are talking about........
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 07:07 PM
Thats it a sh...y design Iwent with it because it was looked simple. Wrong sh....y!!!!!!!!!
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 07:09 PM
Simple is good. Single stage clutches are very easy to tune........., once you know the jist of it.......
How many clutch springs does your bike have?
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 07:13 PM
If you look at the back of the lockup you will see three small screws that hold the bearing carrier to the lockup. Those are the ones that fell into the oil pan. My bike has hours of tuning and the setup is good the stock clutch couldn't hold on the other end thats why i went to the lock should of pick the MTC.
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 07:16 PM
I dont think that was a factor of the springs because the bike ran fine until the arms started digging into the plate.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 07:19 PM
Just looked at the pic......
You have 6 clutch springs eh?
Why does it have three arms, and not 6? All other 6 spring clutches have 6 arms, thats weird, is there something keeping it from it? Is the back torque limiter still in?
Also, no offense, but obviously, the set up is not good......., not if it bucks.......
What is the set up on the bike, motor, wb, rider, etc.......
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 07:27 PM
Thats what Im saying I should of went to the folks that knows lock-up. The thing only had three arms for weight and I didnt have on that much steel bolt and one washer on each arm the guys with the mtc were using more I had to be different and it all most cost me my motor.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 07:31 PM
Edited By: NOX on 15 Apr 2008 20:31
I have never seen a clutch come from mtc even close to being set up good.......
They set them up VERY conservative, just to make sure you dont burn a clutch plate.......
That was PLENTY to lock you up at the top end........,
What motor are you running......, chassis, etc
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 07:50 PM
Dont try to blame the bike for a bad lock-up. I will not change what I been doing for 2 years. To much time and money have been spent to get it where it is. The LOCKUP FAILED.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 07:57 PM
Like I said, you have said nothing about the set up, or what et the bike runs...........
If the bolts fell out, when did you ever check them......., never assume anything when putting parts in that someone else assembled........
I am not blaming the bike........, I am blaming the tuner of the lock up........,
I am not trying to trash you, but you still have not said anything about the bike, but assume that the set up was wrong........., you could have 180 hp, or you could have 280. You have not said, or said how you release the clutch....., do you toss it, or slide it.......
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 08:09 PM
Its a stock motor bike on spray I toss the clutch the issue here is not about my set up its about a sh...y lockup that I was told there will be nothing done about it from the company i bought it from it was a pain from jumpstreet. I dont give out times or setups because i bet money on this bike and you never know whos on here. sorry! Yes I did check the bolts I shouldnt have to tear down my clutch completely at the track if it cant stay together its trashed.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 08:14 PM
Edited By: NOX on 15 Apr 2008 21:20
Some of the excess vibration from bog if you had it set up wrong could have caused it, but I would not be able to diagnose it, since you don't want to give any info at all out. You said in the front of the post that the bolts were installed from the factory, but then said you checked them......., sounds like you were the last one to touch them.......
Either way, it should not have happened. I would be finding the issue asap.......
Good luck.
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 08:20 PM
Thanks for the help like i said they need to supply a plate with steel buttons on it to prevent the digging of the arms thats when the vibration starts.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 08:22 PM
They are supposed to dig in....., thats what locks it up........
They should only be an 1/8 of an inch or maybe a 1/4 from the plate....., they cant really "dig" in, due to the shy angle......, if they are getting like a 45 degree angle or something, you have things installed wrong......
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 08:29 PM
Tahts what I tried to tell my man because only one would dig in but they were 800.00 richer so they didnt care.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 08:36 PM
How much gap is between the arms and the hat?
Send an email direct to Rob. Thats about the only way to get anything done there. He made things right with those junk parts they built for their zx12 lock up, and refunded my money for having to buy the replacement parts....., we still built our own pull rod out of tool steel in the machine shop......., the lock up hat was fine......., it is just a copy of a mtc, or mre, etc, single stage lock up....... I will say this....., the spacer plate from the muzzy sealed way better than the spacer from mtc.....
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 08:36 PM
Look I install all kinds of after market parts on all kinds of bikes and for alot of guys i dont think that I would do myself a bad job. I cauth the prodlem for the start and 800.00 will make you keep trying to make a part work before you remove it. That lock-up is not the way to go.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 15, 2008 08:39 PM
Nevermind.
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 15, 2008 08:42 PM
I sent pics to muzzy but no reply. I dont know how to go direct to Rob. My spacer didnt seal I had to use 3 stock gaskets to make it seal.
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bama10r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted April 16, 2008 04:32 AM
Man I hate to hear about your troubles with the lock up, it was the next thing on my wish list! So exactly what did Dave at Muzzy tell you when you called?
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