tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted April 09, 2008 12:45 PM
I don't think I'd concern myself with all that min range or tolerance stuff. As long as you can get the gauge zeroed at a known diameter, all you need to do is measure the differences between your bore diameters and the known diameter. You can do this manually without telling the gauge to do a min hold or min range by just reading the live or instantaneous display values as you muddle the gauge around in the bore.
  
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 09, 2008 04:24 PM
Use a manual one, and you won't have to worry about it............
____________
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2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 10, 2008 11:11 AM
i dont have one... i was told to get the electronic one i just bought
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted April 10, 2008 12:00 PM
Electronic gauges are fine, as they can be used like an analog gauge if you so desire. All of the advanced features of the electronic gauge can be ignored and the differences can be read just like on an analog gauge.
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Dane
Expert Class
Posts: 235
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posted April 10, 2008 01:56 PM
Who has the best price on Crank and rod Bushings. The lowest I've seen is 10. @ for Crank and 8.50 @ for con rod, which didn't seem that bad....
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted April 13, 2008 10:15 AM
Schnitz or ron ayers i believe
Im getting much better results with measuring my cases now. zero-ing the gauge in the mic then using it like a manual one in the cases 
i have a question on rods tho
how do you hold them to attain the proper torque spec when they arent on the crank? im a bit leary on clamping them in a vise. i can get them torqued, but not the 2 flats after holding them in one hand and the wrench in the other hand.... would a few wraps in a towel and just lightly held in a bench vise be fine?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted April 13, 2008 08:00 PM
I put the rod in between a couple of short pieces of 1x4 and then squeeze them pretty good.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted April 13, 2008 08:53 PM
fold a couple shop towel then wrap them around the big end of the rod before clamping into the vise.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted April 14, 2008 04:11 AM
I don't understand why you need to go that extra 2 flats if it isn't on the crank.For measuring purposes,making the bolts tight I was told is enough.Stretching the bolt shouldn't have an effect on the inner diameter of the rod ,no?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 14, 2008 05:00 AM
It made a difference on the checking we did.........
Motor is holding together nicely, shift light is set at 11,800, or at least it was........, little too much for a cold track, we had to back it off to get the job done sunday......
49 degrees, 65 degree track temp....., and 50 ft DA air, with good barometer....., hp is great, but not on a poorly prepped track.......
ugh
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted April 14, 2008 09:42 AM
quote:
It made a difference on the checking we did.........
Motor is holding together nicely, shift light is set at 11,800, or at least it was........, little too much for a cold track, we had to back it off to get the job done sunday......
49 degrees, 65 degree track temp....., and 50 ft DA air, with good barometer....., hp is great, but not on a poorly prepped track.......
ugh
How? Did it change where the shells meet or the top to bottom?Once the faces are tight,how does the diameter change with bolt stretch?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 14, 2008 03:03 PM
I dont remember, I did not mic them, I torqued them........
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted April 14, 2008 03:22 PM
i tried measuring one without the 2 flats and was getting a big number(40.032mm or something like that), so i assumed they needed to be tighter as the motor was running awesome (till the stock trans took a dump). i havent been back at the bike as ive been sick and working more
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 15, 2008 04:01 PM
ok, torqued and 2 flats seems to make a diff. but how exactly am i supposed to measure the rods? perpendicular to the split like the cases? in more than one place? at an angle?
(btw the one that measured 40.032mm is now 40.006mm with the 2 flats if im measuring them properly. i did it perpendicular to the split)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted April 15, 2008 04:48 PM
Learn something new every day! 
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted April 15, 2008 09:58 PM
i measure the rods perpendicular to the split
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted April 16, 2008 02:18 PM
thx Karl
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted April 17, 2008 05:33 PM
I got some pretty good results measuring my rods. they were a lot easier than the cases. im actually going to do the cases again to double check now that i have more practise.
3 rods were the same, and one was bigger by 00.004mm (40.010 and 40.014)
I have a question on the crank now. how exactly do you mic it? try to hold it where you think its the middle and tighten the friction drive? (i cant get any repeatable results this way, maybe i need a special stand?)or can i set the mic to a size, lock it, then try to fit it over? if its tight and i kind of force it will it give an accurate result?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
|
posted April 17, 2008 06:57 PM
it is sort of a learned......"feel".......
Karl may have some special way in technical terms to describe it..
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted April 18, 2008 03:16 AM
KZ
nox is right, there is a feel to it which my arthritic, liver spotted, wrinkly, blue veined, yellow nailed, trembling ole man's hands sometimes finds problematic.
But
1. I take the measurements away from the oiling hole in the middle, on my stroker cranks that area is several tenths less than the sides.
2. i gently press the stationary tip of the mic on one side of the journal, and bring in the other tip using the friction thing.
3. look for a tiny, tiny gap under ea tip against the journal. The trick is to get the mic centered on the diameter, if you are away from the dia it will read less.
Beware of temp differences...
After a few stiff drinks to steady my hands i usually can reproduce readings to a tenth 
i'm glad i'm not the metrology-challenged shade tree mechanic 
____________
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 18, 2008 05:02 AM
Yes, temp of the tools and crank should be the same........
Hopefully you have a good wifey like me and Karl......
I use the kitchen table, with, the proper precautions to prevent any damage.........
not her good linens.......(or in my case, our only linens........LOL)
Turbo Dog is good....., but not sure how the NA motor gods approve........
I guess in your neck of the woods, Molson or Molson Light would be acceptable........, but, Blue Moon is made up there......, and it is acceptable, as long as you don't use an orange slice.......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted April 18, 2008 08:20 PM
A couple notes on measuring stuff that I've found handy:
If your rods and your cases are the same size, you can use the rod as a setting ring to calibrate your bore gauge when you measure your cases. It's a lot more convenient than using the mic.
Build some v-blocks to hold your crankshaft while measuring it. I used some 1/4"t x 4"h x 3"w oak strips sandwiched between some oak 1x2's so my journals won't get scratched up. (Pics available upon request.)
When measuring the crank journals, you need to make sure that the journal is centered between the anvils as Karl mentioned, and also make sure that the mic is perpendicular to the journal by rocking it gently side to side to see if it loosens up. You're looking for the smallest reading.
In addition to just touching the journal with the anvils, I also slide the mic back and forth in the plane of the jaws of the mic while still slowly turning the friction thimble to make sure my displayed value is stable.
Make sure everything is really, really clean. That means every part of what you're measuring, any support equipment you're using to hold stuff, and every part of the measuring tools you're using. The slightest bit of grit will throw off your results and may damage the parts you're measuring or the tools you're using to measure them.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted April 19, 2008 05:49 AM
"Make sure everything is really, really clean..."
+1
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted April 22, 2008 06:29 PM
brought the stuff into the house for a day(to warm it up), and measured it all again tonight. got much better results on the kitchen table Finally! im never measuring something under 20 degrees (C) again! the thermal expansion throws off the measurements too bad
doing the same to dads bike tomm(brought stuff into the house tonight) and placing an order. time is getting short!
thx for all the help guys!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
|
posted April 22, 2008 06:38 PM
You have not lived right in this sport, until you have done some type of the build or tune, on the kitchen table........
Man Law.
I set up the multi stage that I tuned this past weekend on the kitchen table.
I prefer carbs......., nothing like a cold beverage of your choice, a set of carbs, kicked back at the kitchen table......., it says you have a purpose....... (and no TV in the garage........)
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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