entropy
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posted July 30, 2002 02:32 PM
 Edited By: entropy on 30 Jul 2002 17:08
Nutec: any tips for DJ25
Guys,
I am taking my 12 to Sabine in Dallas on Fri for optimizing my 1361 map for my Lee's cams, 1375 crank, and minor head work.
1st Jim will do the 80%, 100% throttle mapping with pump gas. We will probably try 12.8, 13.0, 13.2 A/F see which gives the best hp 8500-11600.
Then he'll do the same with Nutec.
Any hints on mapping with Nutec?
I use the bike mostly for 1/4 mi, so I am not much interested in less than 8500. In any event its making so much hp at launch rpm (5000+/-) it is delicate to keep the front wheel down even with a 6" arm.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted July 30, 2002 02:35 PM
OOooh I'd like to see those maps when your done  Maybe post them on my website? 
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entropy
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posted July 30, 2002 04:07 PM
quote:
OOooh I'd like to see those maps when your done Maybe post them on my website?
given the modest increases due to cams on the 12, I am not thinking that any records will be set. All I wanna do is optimize AF for the current set up, so I can go back to the builder and try a different cam timing (107/110 now).
THEN, with dynos on 2 different cam settings I WILL BEG Y2K to use his magic graphs and tell me what the magic cam timing should be
But hey, at least the no-Nutec/Nutec comparo oughta be interesting and I'll sure send 'em to you Bergie! Your website is so full o' cool stuff, great place.
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oldkawboy
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posted July 30, 2002 05:29 PM
My bike made 5-6 hp more on both dyno sessions with Nutech, same results with VP-MR1. We had to add fuel to mine for good numbers, may be the oxygen in the fuel leans it out a tad.
BTW, mine is a stock bore/stroke 12 and this info may not help you.
Just don't run it LEAN !!!!
Dan
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Zhooligan
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posted July 30, 2002 06:55 PM
The first tip is make sure you don't want any more children. The shit will make you sick in the dyno room, it will fry your eyeballs etc. It definitely reuires more fuel as it is oxyginated and it will make more horsepower. A built R1 makes 8hp more with Nutec.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted July 31, 2002 03:09 PM
Are you guys running 100% nutec or mixing it slightly with pump gas? If mixing at what ratio are you mixing? Also when you say "added fuel" to your map/programming what type of #s are we talking about? 15%? 10%? in your PC3?
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Zhooligan
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posted July 31, 2002 07:50 PM
I run 100% Nutec unless I am stuck somewhere where I have to throw pump gas in. If it is good enough for my race bike it sure in hell is good enough for my toy! The wife hates the smell in the garage!! My 1361 is still in break in and has been mapped conservatively at 12.8. In about 500 more miles we will bump her up to 13.1 or 2. At that point I'll share some numbers.
If you are not mapped corectly you will find better performance out of 50/50 Nutec and pump gas.
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madmike
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posted August 01, 2002 05:46 AM
There is a NEW Nutec that is out it is called Spec 5 so from what I have heard everything is switching over to that but I might be wrong? but I would make a phone call and see if there will be any diffrence in your mapping between the two?
Mad Mike
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted August 01, 2002 07:37 AM
Yes I read on Dragbike.com that ProStar is switching to Spec5 too. Here is a link to the article: http://www.dragbike.com/news/07-02/072602g.htm so make sure you map with the new stuff if possible.
Friday, July 26, 2002 - 07:26:48 PM PST Dragbike.com
Nutec's Special 5 Fuel Update
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nutec wants to apologize for the lack of communication about the introduction of its updated high performance 4-stroke fuel at the last race.
After having been used for almost four years in highly competitive racing series, the Special 4 needed to be upgraded. Knowing some of its weaknesses, we decided to work on a new fuel that would:
-Give better performances
-Require less maintenance
-Require similar set-up than Special 4
The project started beginning of this year and the first batch of Special 5 has been released around June 2002. This fuel makes between 1 to 2% more power, burns much cleaner (almost no deposits on valves and intake ports), is less corrosive and requires almost the same mapping than Special 4.
Nonetheless, true for all high performance racing fuels, it is still recommended to: Drain the fuel back in a sealed metal container after use. This would avoid the fuel to evaporate and the fuel lines to eventually go dry. Run some pump gas through the system before letting your bike sit for weeks. Pump gas contains detergent additives that are efficient but are not so good for overall performances.
Nutec released the Special 5 at the last minute for Norwalk, OH believing the use of this upgraded product would be an immediate benefit for the racers. We sincerely apologize if this has not been the case. We will try our best to improve the communication to the racers.
At Indianapolis and for the rest of the year, Maximum Street Performance (MSP) will handle the distribution of our fuels at the AMA Prostar events. In addition, MSP, with brand new equipments along with years of experience, will provide technical advices and full dyno services to help racers tune their engines on sight.
For any question, please feel free to contact us for at (310) 641-8015 or MSP at (614) 272-7472. New dealers inquiries are welcomed.
Sincerely,
Lionel Roux
Director of North America Operations
Nutec Division America LLC
9100 S. Sepulveda Blvd. #218, Los Angeles, CA 90045
Tel: (310) 641-8015,
Fax: (310) 641-8013
lionel.roux@nutecdivision.com
www.nutecdivision.com
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entropy
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posted August 01, 2002 10:12 AM
Great info, guys.
I will make the switch to Spec 5 after I use up a can & 1/2 of spec 4, so I will do the dynos on spec4.
thanks
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ZHooligan
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posted August 01, 2002 04:28 PM
I will talk with Mike Velasco about the Spec 5. He indicated to me the other day that the new nutec gives some extra horsepower in the middle and possibly on top. However according to what he has been told it eats pretty much everything it touches. Not the kind of fuel you can leave in the tank and expect things to stay together. He may be talking about an even more specialized version of Nutec or it may be BS. I will ask. He is at Road America this weekend with the Hooters Team.
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fastestr1
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posted August 14, 2002 05:45 PM
ok so what can the guy that rides his 02 12 to work and drag races on the weekend with NOS use?
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Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted August 15, 2002 01:48 PM
quote:
Great info, guys.
I will make the switch to Spec 5 after I use up a can & 1/2 of spec 4, so I will do the dynos on spec4.
thanks
Well how did it turn out for you at the dyno?
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entropy
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posted August 15, 2002 04:53 PM
Edited By: entropy on 16 Aug 2002 01:54
bergie,
the dyno room was 110 degrees (AC was broken)
reference pulls = 191 SAE
set AF at 13.0 = 194 SAE
added nutec = 204 SAE
The hp curve is very flat from 9800-11600; I expected it to be peakier.
I have the feeling that although the dyno has a weather station, the SAE #'s are a bit low, not hugely, but low (2-4) compared with pulls made during the winter.
I took it to the track last Sun and got 9.120@155.4mph with a weather/hp factor of 97.9 (using nutec) HOT day. in April with the vanilla 1361 & nutec, weather/hp factor of 102 I got 153-ish. This makes me think adding the cams prolly only added 3-4 hp.
I suspect that I can get 9.0's if I launch a little harder even in Houston summer heat. My 60's were 1.53-ish last time , but I have done 1.498-9 a few times in April, so I just gotta get more consistent outa the hole.
My next move will be to get some input from Jim G on cam timing, maybe try some other setting (108/110 now).
You have any thoughts?
How are you doing?
remind me what yr cam timing is, and could you please do me the favor of reposting yr hp curve. I am mostly interested in the shape of the curve. (sorry I can't post my curve but I can send you the files if you are interested.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted August 15, 2002 08:27 PM
That's awesome! A solid 10 ponies from Nutec is great, and your times are too. I suspect our bikes are very similar in power. Ryan went 9.13 @ 155.x on my bike with the stock swingarm and 16/44 gearing (57.75" wheelbase) but that was on pump gas and no tuning (no PC3R), 1.59~1.60 60' I think (can't remember the exact numbers but I posted the timeslips in an earlier post a couple weeks ago). My numbers (with me riding) are 1.63~1.65 60's and 9.58 @ 152ish using 4th, Ryan was using 5th.
I really want to get my bike to a dyno shop that has a tuning link to monitor A/F ratio but there aren't any around my area. I think it might pickup considerably with tuning and Nutec. I also need to inspect my plugs, haven't even looked at them since the motor was assembled and that was a while back; many runs since and about 3000 street miles.
I don't recall what my exact timing is, I'd have to look when I get home. I'm in Phoenix right now on travel for work.
Yeah send me the files I can post them for you if you want.
On a side note I did get my Coby Adams adjustable swingarm just before I left home; it's a 3 to 8 over adjustable polished. I'm going to set it at 60" when I get home and also order another chain for stretching it 6" over or so to play with... I hope to get down in the range you guys are running with that extra wheelbase!
Have you sprayed yours yet? I sprayed a #36 jet recently on the street; it hauled ASS! I'm guessing ~235 ish at the wheels All I know is that it was pulling more than anything I've ever ridden before! Woo!
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entropy
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posted August 16, 2002 12:49 AM
Edited By: entropy on 16 Aug 2002 01:58
Yep, a trip to a DJ250 w/tuning link (and a good operator) would likely pick you up a few hp. we tried AF's lower and higher but 13.0 was best. We also tried backing away from 5degrees adv to 2 degrees and it lost 2-3 hp.
It as interesting that the Nutec pulls did NOT lean the motor out as others have postulated/ experienced? . It was bang on 13 w/nutec with no changes to the pumpgas settings.
I'd like to see a pic of the coby adams arm. I am still having wheelie "challenges" in 1st w/my 6".
I know fuk-all about nitrous, but am definitely going the squeeze route, prolly the muzzy wet kit, but not till I get better at riding what I have now. Even at my 230# TFA raceweight, I think I have a possibility of doing 8.9999999999 's once we get out winter weather (dry & cool/cold).
What mph did you get out of the #36? Your pistons are "normal" from the Muzzy 1361 kit? How did you mount yr bottle? 1## or 2#??????
When we get our bikes sorted out we ought meet with MadMike, Krexxen, ra12r and other? 1361-ers at some track midway between us. Seems like we are on the same path (melted Visa cards at least  )
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fastestr1
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posted August 16, 2002 09:45 AM
I am running 02,stock motor, 16/44, step hindle, K&N's, stock swing arm with a 36 jet. 60ft was 1.61 @ 149.
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Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
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