entropy
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posted June 17, 2008 04:14 AM
nuthin to it Scott!
set the cams then do PTV.
put a soft spring on #1 int and #1 exh valves, you'll get PTV with ease (although Dr Chin's tool does make it even easier)
tell us when you are GTG.
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KZScott
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posted June 19, 2008 06:13 PM
 Edited By: KZScott on 19 Jun 2008 19:14
had a bit of a set back (car trouble) but i managed to get some done
finished gapping rings to JC specs. i actually only had to touch the top ring on 1 and 4...the rest were good. i used a manual ring grinder my uncle had for his drag vette. a bit big, but it worked fine lol. split cases (im starting to get good at that) and put new rod bolts and nuts in, and put them back together. im picking up a degree wheel and dial indicator tomorrow after work. do i need some clay?
oh yeah, pic: 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted June 19, 2008 08:21 PM
If you use the dial-indicator-and-light-spring method, you won't need clay. Again, I'd try to find a spring of the right dimensions and rate at the hardware store, as the stock springs are all too stiff, and you run the risk of damaging the tappets with the screwdriver tip. You may have to buy something close and modify it to fit.
I hear that Stingy Old Karl has *TWO* of the PTV tools languishing in his garage. Maybe if you offer to buy him a 30-pound lobster, he might see his way clear to letting you borrow one.
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entropy
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posted June 19, 2008 09:19 PM
i tried the light spring method and it works fine. Like Tim says, just go to HW store and find a spring which serves, cut it down if needed.
But, I will send the TCC tm-ed PTV tool to you if the "soft spring" method doesn't appeal to you.
Scott
BTW, I find it easier to install the head if i put the cam chain slippers on after the head is installed. Works either way.
I would like a 30# lobster, but will have to make do with the 23#-er which is arriving today
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KZScott
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posted June 20, 2008 01:23 AM
thx guys!!! im allmost late for work, gotta go, ill pick up a couple light springs 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted June 21, 2008 04:23 AM
quote:
I hear that Stingy Old Karl has *TWO* of the PTV tools languishing in his garage. Maybe if you offer to buy him a 30-pound lobster, he might see his way clear to letting you borrow one.
if Scott found me a 30# lobster, I'd personally bring the tools to him AND do the measurements.
Biggest lobster i have seen to date is 23# and we ate him last night
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KZScott
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posted June 21, 2008 10:08 AM
yeah, i had to tie up the cam chain to put the head on last time, i just got carried away with putting stuff on again this time.
so the degree kit has a big degree wheel, a dial indicator and 2 light springs. ill try to set cam timing this afternoon.
how do i check ptv? i would really appreciate detailed instructions, its my first time remember
Karl, if i ever find a 30# lobster, ill let you know
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 21, 2008 03:14 PM
scott,
once the light springs are on #1 exh and #1 int, bolt the head on
- put cams in and assure lash is OK
- determine int CL (or start w/exh)
- rotate motor until exh is closing and int is opening (on overlap)
- put motor at about 15 deg before TDC
- put dial indicator on int bucket, zero it
- push down bucket until valve hits piston, note travel of DI
- adv motor until 10 deg BTDC, repeat measurement
- tightest spot should be between 10 and 5 BTDC
same with intake but tight spot between 5-10 deg ATDC
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KZScott
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posted June 21, 2008 09:26 PM
making some progress
swapped the cam pick up over to the other IN cam. had to pull the plug out of the end then drill a hole for the pin. i didnt have to grind the tip off like is sometimes done when swapping 00 to later style cams. got lucky i guess i made sure it was pretty much the same location by using some solder wrapped around the nearest cam lobe, and around the pick up. that template slid right onto the new setup.
I made a positive stop out of a bolt, and found true TDC. i was very suprised to see how close the marks on the motor were. the head is milled 5 thou, and the block shim is out. Im thinking that the cometic head gasket that came with the pistons is a bit thicker than the stock headgasket. this would make sense as i was expecting a tighter quench then i measured.
started degreeing my first set of cams!  found IN CL first, 140 (holy shit!) move sprocket some, 136 better, but no more adjustment. take off cam cap again, jump 1 tooth on sprocket, 100. getting there, move sprocket 107. too far move sprocket, 103. repeat, 106.5, 104.5, 107, 105.5 loc tite!
going to do EX tomorrow and try your PTV instructions Karl you are the man, thank you again
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted June 21, 2008 11:48 PM
scott,
i am sure you are doing it, but just to be double sure...
it is important to tq the cam cap bolts to spec when taking the cap off-on, off-on, etc. It does make a difference.
Good progress!!
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KZScott
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posted June 22, 2008 06:48 AM
i am, but thx for checking! (its very possible i could miss little things like that)
a bit of black marker to line up the chain/teeth has been a good help.
all the tips for the DI were too big around, so i made one out of a thick piece of copper wire(carefully shaped).... it was all i could find at 12:30 am.
you have it too easy with the busa buckets and the ends of your cams ground down to .750" :P
off to do the EX side, ill report back with results later
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
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posted June 22, 2008 08:57 AM
OK, dunno what to do 
started degreeing EX cam. started out with 96, moved to 101, now at 106.5 the pistons are just touching the valves as the EX valves are closing at about 15 degrees. do i go bigger or smaller to give me more clearance? (both ways would work right?? it would just affect the power delivery?....)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 22, 2008 11:06 AM
quote:
OK, dunno what to do
started degreeing EX cam. started out with 96, moved to 101, now at 106.5 the pistons are just touching the valves as the EX valves are closing at about 15 degrees. do i go bigger or smaller to give me more clearance? (both ways would work right?? it would just affect the power delivery?....)
as we spoke, bigger CL's should give more PTV unless my method is way off base.
Are you sure the #1 Cyl is on overlap??
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KZScott
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posted June 22, 2008 12:09 PM
good talking with you Karl. as i said on the phone(the second time :P) it was the cam rubbing the DI.. damn rough casting. ill have to get them machined down like yours next time the motor is apart(hopefully next winter). i put the DI in a diff spot and all is good i think my 106.5 from last time was actually around 99, which makes much more sense. it now spins over just fine at 103.5, and i set it at 106
so IN 105.5, EX 106
time for PTV.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted June 22, 2008 12:50 PM
break for supper, couple pics
i had the DI coming in where the red line was
it was rubbing on the cam here:
(any other point of rotation had lots of clearance)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted June 22, 2008 03:22 PM
Woohoo everything looks good!
tightest spot on EX is at 9 degrees BTDC .064"
tightest spot on IN is at 7 degrees ATDC .100"
i guess i need a bigger intake cam lol
time to pull off head, reinstall 2 carpenter springs, goop the block/case and bolt it all together for hopefully the last time this yr!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted June 22, 2008 06:21 PM
head was removed, light springs replaced with carpenters. lifted the block up enough to goop the top of the case, put block on, put head on and torqued everything up. need to put cams back in, put on 2 oil pipes, the relief valve and the oil pan and then its pretty much ready to go back into the bike. should get that done tomorrow night. thinking really hard about calling in sick to work :P lol
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
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posted June 23, 2008 03:07 AM
Scott, congrats on figuring it out!
I know you are prob sick of looking at that degree wheel & DI, but if I were you I'd take a deep breath and check I & E CL's after you change the springs and reassemble the motor.
I've caught stuff at this point in the build.
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KZScott
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posted June 23, 2008 01:19 PM
yeah, i was going to anyway Karl, being 1 tooth off (or more) just isnt worth the risk. i have the hang of it now so it should take me as long
so the PTV tool Tim made lets you use regular springs? have any overhead pics of where it bolts to the cam cap?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted June 23, 2008 06:14 PM
cams back in, timing checked out (my marker lines on the chain/sprockets really helped), valve cover on, all parts associated with oil pan back on. hoses back on, TB's back on. clutch back on with new fibers.
bought a new set of fibers from schnitz to use with the muzzy steels. this setup brings the stack height to 56.6mm (roughly). the factory recommends 56.8mm to 57.6mm. low stack height is hard on the rod, so i took out 2 of the the muzzy 2mm steels and replaced them with 3 stock 1.6mm steels to bring my stack height to 57.4mm. i need to put a couple 1.4mm steels on the next order list....
should have the motor in the bike tomorrow night, and possibly started if everything goes well
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ninja12
Needs a job
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posted June 23, 2008 07:55 PM
I got my motor all boxed up ready to ship, what's that address again.
Looks good, Good Luck with it on the track.
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entropy
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posted June 24, 2008 01:56 AM
good progress!!
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woppi
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posted June 24, 2008 03:44 AM
@KZScott
you are hard working !! at both bikes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
would not use the 1,4mm steels --------- not good !!! they are to thin !!! get the blue color and bend to fast !!!!!
i use the 1,6mm + 2mm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
woppi
do you need the efir ??
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KZScott
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posted June 24, 2008 01:26 PM
address is 5544 Route 8..... lol. hey you can send it if you want, but wait till im not as busy, i still have to figure out my LM-1
i wouldnt use a 1.4 steel by itself, but i would put 2 together to make a 2.8 or with a 1.6 to make a 3.0
i will need the efir, but i have to buy a couple other things first. can it wait a couple weeks?
thx guys. (goes back to the shop )
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted June 24, 2008 07:20 PM
IT IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!! bigger and badder then ever!
only had 1 setback during the final stages (o ring leaked when we filled the rad up, so we poped a new one in). turned the key on and off a couple times to pressurise the fuel system and it fired right up. let it idle for a min, varied the throttle up and down to 2-3 grand a couple times, let it come up to temp, gave it a quick shot to 5000 and shut it off. the new oil pan held 4 litres of oil (stock is 3.5 for a dry engine) plus i completely filled the oil filter (whatever volume that is) and there was lots of assembly lube and a bit of oil in it(splashed some oil on the cams when i put on the valve cover)
I know im not quite done yet, but i want to thank all of you have have been helping me learn how to do this. you have no idea how excited i am right now
the busas better watch out, theres a 1287 Ninja getting ready to battle 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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