pulling motor for the first time for trans fix. motor work too? hmmm @ DRAGBIKE ZONE.com

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KZScott

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posted December 12, 2007 08:29 AM

quote:
this thread looks like a episode of how it's made on the dish and cable.
great info keep it going till the end.

ill keep you guys up to date as i slowly progress with the project

got the exhaust ports just about finished, going to try a bit of polishing compound on them when the intakes are done so i can do them all at once. I got a pretty good start on 1 intake last night

damn they are long compared to the EX side lol, not nearly as much to do on the IN as i see it right now, more or less getting rid of the casting errors and smoothing out the bumps and ridges, plus matching the intake boot.
Im leaning pretty heavily towards leaving the valve guides intact for better heat disapation and longer life. if i was just going to race this, i would grind them down for a bit more flow, but its going to be tearing up the streets as well as the 1/4 mile
should have more pics up tonight

Woppi, start a thread with lots of pics:P

____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

KZScott

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posted December 12, 2007 09:26 PM

ok here we go

had the first one just about done when i started taking pics

took a pretty good lip off of the intake boot

this one hasnt been touched yet, notice how the boot is smaller than the port, and has a sharp (bad for flow) corner.

looking from the other side

view from CC

2 just about done

it was time to call it a night

KZScott

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posted December 17, 2007 05:45 PM

I havent been working on the bike, but I did order just about all the parts I need (besides gears) from Schnitz Racing

I cant say enough about the great customer service. They were able to put in a special order for me to get parts they dont usually carry, and are even sending my stuff with USPS (that option isnt even listed on their site) so I dont have to deal with those ********** at UPS.
A public THANK YOU to Ryan, Dave, Nick, and Sheila.

you are the best!

BDE billet shift shafts, Carpenter valve springs, blue crank and rod bearings, cam chain, shift forks, oil pump rotor, valve seals, Muzzy counter balancer "dummy" shaft, head gasket, and possibly something in the 86mm range :P are soon going to be on their way to me

Now for some pics of what Im going to try and copy.
These were stolen from posts made by Jim(Y2K) and Doug Meyer, I hope they dont mind me using them for a "goal"
first 2 are from Jims zx14r build thread (very helpful for me)

these 2 pics are from DM's 1340 motor IIRC

KZScott

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posted December 22, 2007 11:23 PM

been kinda neglecting the poor bike, but i did get something for it. thx again JC. more parts from texas

KZScott

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posted January 02, 2008 05:29 PM

bit of an update. I was on the phone with a guy from R&D Motorsports today (forgot to ask him his name). great guy, he knew I was calling from Canada, I guess the "zed ex 12R" gave me away

He was explaining out a bunch of stuff on how the ("zee ex 12R") trans works, and what they do to fix the issues it has. (he thinks the engineer thaty designed the 12 trans should have been fired lol) this is what im looking at having done:

magnaflux $65
back cut $350
HD circlip mod $105
shift drum mod $105

not sure about the billet gears, they have them in stock, and want $750 for 2-4. I mentioned that Bill Robinson quoted me $575, so he was going to look into trying to lower his own price! Im hoping Bill didnt miss quote the price for me. im going to email him or call him about it again. he also recommended billet shift shafts, allready have a set ordered

interesting facts:

5th gear only goes in half way. they do some fancy stuff to the shift drum, i think do some clearencing, and make a shoulder so that 5th goes 3/4 of the way in. its not possible to go all the way or it would be in two different gears at the same time(= broken teeth)

the HD clip mod uses a harley clip 11067 i think was the part number, and is 2mm wide. they have to do some machining and clearencing for it to work IIRC. this prevents not only the gear from popping in and out, but if your kill time isnt set high enough on an airshifter application, it can blow the stock clip out and the bike goes into 2 gears at the same time, and you start picking teeth out of your oil pan.

the billet gears(chrome molly) are hardened to 52-54 rockwell any more and they get brittle(not sure what stock gears are). they do wear faster than stock gears, but wont stress fracture. they start to show pitting after miles and miles of street use. (im hoping royal purple oil will help with this problem, look at their adds, more specifically pics of bearings before and after)

the 12 has smaller centerlines (i think that was the word) than the 11. the opposite of what should have happened, the 12 should have gone bigger because it makes more power. to compensate, they made the gears wider to spread out the force. this isnt an ideal fix as it causes "tip loading" and can cause stress fractures when you start making good power

turn around time is about 3 weeks now, and will double when feb gets here as everyone starts getting ready for spring about then

shiphteey

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Posts: 2529

posted January 02, 2008 05:42 PM

I did a lot of those trans mods on my 12 (from R&D). Very cool guy (Mark...Mike?) explained it to me in great detail the shortcomings of the 12 tranny. I skipped the billet gears though since they will wear fast on the streets. They are softer so they won't BREAK but you'd need quite a bit of power to snap em I presume.

A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles

Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.

KZScott

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posted January 02, 2008 06:40 PM

i think the billet gears are good for over 500hp, the stockers with a back cut? touchy subject lol
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

entropy

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Posts: 8671

posted January 02, 2008 11:37 PM

KZ,
great post, VERY informative.

Keep this stuff coming

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TRNorBRN6001

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Posts: 2021

posted January 03, 2008 09:10 AM

Billet gears, Very very nice! Just get them polished and then
they will be ready for the mantle instead of your bike.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!

KZScott

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posted January 03, 2008 03:12 PM

lol the stockers are going up on the wall, but the pretty stuff is going in the motor

. and once its buttoned up, i hope to never see them untill the possibility of a stroker.

back to the top end for a bit

. after a few emails back and forth with Kelly from Fast Ent, I had decided to just go with Millennium and emailed Kurt. I ended up calling him and we talked about the few issues i had with Fast Ent. (their Canadian distributer) and he took care of them. Fast Ent is very busy this time of yr with snowmobiles (no shit, i just had one blow up

) and dont deal with many bikes, so there was an error in a price quote, and another quote had shipping included, which wasnt mentioned. Kurt got to the bottom of it, and I will be dealing Fast Ent as they send the bike stuff to Millennium anyway(Kurt said he would personally check out the cylinder block for me), and I would pay a lot more if I shipped the damaged cylinder block directly to Millennium. I havent talked to Kelly on the phone yet, but I will be calling when my order from Schnitz gets here.

moral of the story, Kurt @ Millennium is good people

KZScott

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posted January 10, 2008 02:28 PM

Well, trans is on its way to R&D. still waiting on parts from Schnitz (takes a long time to send up to canada)
on a side note, i may have another project thread for you guys on sat

KZScott

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posted January 11, 2008 08:08 AM

pulled an all nighter and finished up the ports

started getting a piece of lexan ready to cc the combustion chamber before and after getting it milled .005", the realised i had to clean and then lap in my valves... opps getting too excited and got ahead of myself. btw, threading the plug in holds the lexan perfectly so you can mark were the 4 holes need to go on the other side to bolt it on with head bolts

used a razor blade to clean all the gunk off of 4 of the intake valves so far. very time consuming.

the exhaust valves have much less build up, but its damn hard...any tips on removal???

krexken

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posted January 12, 2008 11:09 AM

I use the wire wheel on my bench grinder. Very fast and gets everything off, no problemo. Just be careful.

KZScott

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posted January 12, 2008 04:17 PM

i heard it wasnt good to use a wire wheel on them... do you use a steel wire wheel? brass?
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

chavcat

Zone Head
Posts: 524

posted January 12, 2008 04:38 PM

Use a brass wheel and these clean up nicely.

KZScott

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Posts: 7235

posted January 12, 2008 04:49 PM

thx Mike!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

KZScott

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Posts: 7235

posted January 15, 2008 05:46 AM

finished cleaning valves up as good as i could get them, and started lapping them in
i dont have a "sucker & stick" so i just used a piece of tubing stuck on the valve. (pull down and spin)

chavcat

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posted January 15, 2008 03:48 PM

Looking good Scott!

KZScott

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posted January 16, 2008 02:38 PM

got my big box o' parts from Schnitz Racing yesterday

finished lapping in the valves, and decided to unshroud the valves to get better flow at low lift (thx for the write up when you built your 1375 Jim

) grabbed my new 86mm headgasket and a sharpie and did some drawing, then got out the dremmel again

i just barely touched the valve seats in a couple places, so i decided to do as much as possible with the valves IN the head from here on. going to re-lap a couple valves after im done and it should be just fine

the goal here besides getting better flow is to drop the compression ratio back down from 13:1(high comp pistons) to about the stock compression ratio(about 12.2:1) so its safer for spray. i have come to the conclusion that adding a spacer to drop compression is bad as it makes the quench height huge, and a tigher quench prevents detonation. so stockish compression ratio with a better flowing head and a fairly tight quench height is what im after

KZScott

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posted January 17, 2008 04:04 PM

finished pics

im pretty happy with how it turned out. next step, get it milled, cleaned and it can go back together

entropy

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posted January 17, 2008 11:14 PM

looking good, KZ!!

man o man you have been getting after it!
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woppi

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posted January 18, 2008 12:42 PM

many hours of work !!!!

good job !!

woppi
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS

KZScott

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posted January 19, 2008 05:43 AM

thx guys. this wouldnt be happening without all the help and info i get here on Bikeland.

hopefully this thread will help out guys like me (beginners) in the future when they are starting their first build up.
anyway, the head is at the machine shop, and will be ready to be picked up in a few days

time to take a break and work on project 2

Seth ZX12r UK

Expert Class
Posts: 238

posted January 19, 2008 09:29 AM

Quality info KZ

what's the lexan/perspex for? how?

if it's working out comp ratio can you show the calcs; used?

cheers

Click here to visit Seth ZX12r UK's homepage.

KZScott

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posted January 19, 2008 02:24 PM

yes, i will be using the lexan to cc the combustion chamber so i can figure out the exact compression ratio. the plug was threaded in through the hole to hold it in place so i could mark from the other side where to drill holes so i can use the head bolts to hold it clamped down nicely. this way i get the holes lined up perfectly. when its clamped down and the valves and plug are in. i will measure how much fluid it takes to fill the combustion chamber(through the hole you see the plug in above) then i need to figure out my piston dome volume. to do this, put a piston down in a cylinder a set amount with the piston/rings greased to prevent any leaking. measure how much fluid it takes to fill the cylinder. you can calculate how much the volume would be if you had a flat top piston with some simple math. then if the number you measured (fluid) is smaller, you take the difference and thats your dome volume. if its more, you have dished or turbo pistons and its a negative number. then you need to measure the quench height. ill be using Karls method of putting 2 pieces of solder on the piston, bolting the head on(with the same type/thickness headgasket you will be using for the build), turning the motor over, pull the head. mic the squished solder pieces, add together, devide by 2 = quench height. you can calculate the compression ratio from this as you know the bore and stroke of the motor.
ill be cc'ing the combustion chamber when i get it back from the machine shop. I decided to just do it once as im not really concearned with what it used to be, just slightly curious. besides, i can allways cc the head of dads bike if it bugs me that bad:P. ill keep you all posted

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