lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted June 17, 2007 09:12 PM
muzzy airshifter issue...maybe
I finally installed the airshifter friday night. Made about 6 fault-free passes and absolutely love this thing. I rode out to the the track tonight and my first pass, it would not shift into 3rd gear. Hit the revlimiter pretty hard before I had to shift up with my foot. Made a few more passes and adjustments....nothing. now it will not come out of first gear.
I'm guessing that I have a leak in my line somewhere. With that said, is there a simple way to find a leak with nitrous? Soapy water work the same as regular air? Should I be getting the '800' shifts with nos instead of CO2?
Digikill is working fine, its still killing the fuel when I hit the button, but the shifter mechanism is not pulling with any authority what so ever. It's looking like I will be buying a guage for my bottle after tonight.
The good news? My wife finally came to watch me race tonight. She broght my boys and met me at the track. First time ever. Pretty cool Fathers Day gift!
  
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 18, 2007 12:49 AM
L2M,
It was raining yesterday pm and i didn't get to go to the track and try out my new Muzzy shifter  .
However, like you I would like a gauge on my bottle so i can see when it's outa pressure.
Anyone have some tips on fitting a gauge to the bottle?
I'm new to this gas stuff.
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted June 18, 2007 03:57 AM
I never used a guage on mine. I just refilled it every 5 or 6 trips to the track. It wasn't close to empty but I was getting the gas for free so i didn't really care.
I'm not much help.
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted June 18, 2007 04:38 AM
I have seen the switching valves leak out bad, because liquid got in the system and jacked them all up.........
Numerous times.............
But Muzzy will tell you they have never had this issue................
Set the bottle verticle in the arm, and you wont have that trouble........., also, muzzy had a ton of issues with regulators, they would be sent with way to high pressure, and bleed the system out at the switching valve............
Get a low pressure guage and a high pressure guage...........
so you know how the whole system is doing...........
When it gets down to 600 psi on the low side, it is only going to have a few passes left, go get it filled............
Run the low pressure side at about 120 to 150, and you are set.........., I run my big ram set up at 160.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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Lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted June 18, 2007 08:11 AM
Nox, I'm not understanding what you are saying about the high pressure & low pressure. Got a picture of this setup? Are both gauges connected inline at the bottle? How much psi do you have in your completely filled bottle? what do you fill your bottle with? Co2, NOS, nitrogen?
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buddy
Expert Class
Posts: 335
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posted June 18, 2007 12:01 PM
 Edited By: buddy on 18 Jun 2007 13:48
I use a regulator called 12050. Go to Schnitzracing and search Nitrous regulator and it will come up. I hook the output of the bottle to the input of the regulator and the out of the regulator to a guage. Out of the guage to the shift solonoid. This doesn't tell how much pressure is in the bottle, but if you set it at 125 to 140 lbs. you will have plenty of air to operate the solonoid. If you can't get that pressure, your bottle probably needs filled.
As far as the high pressure and low pressure, the input side of the regulator would be the high and the output would be the low side. I'm not for sure, but I believe NOX meant the high pressure side when he was talking about the 600 lbs. and 600 lbs. was the low limit of the high pressure side, which should be up around 900 to 1000 lbs., depending on the fill and temperature.
I have the straw out of my nitrous bottle, so I mount the bottle with the out put raised up so as not to get liquid out to to the regulator. I was having trouble freezing up the regulator before I found out the liquid would do that. In some cases, if it froze up, the regulator would stay open and all the bottle would empty out fast, but in all cases, the shifting would be less than reliable. No more problems since I quit putting liquid out into the regulator.
I built my own and it's so simple it never has failed. Good luck, guys.
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narider
Expert Class
Posts: 246
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posted June 18, 2007 12:49 PM
Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the Muzzy systems or about any ZX12 eccentricities(other then their riders - lol).
This is just about Co2 as a shifter propelant.
*First is to make sure you have high pressure items upstream of the regulator of course.
Best leak finder I've used is windex, and many times the cheaper Co2 bottles(that we've come across lately anyway) which are the aluminum ones have a valve(depress pin) that is shorter then those in the steel bottles making them more prone to act up if not fully seated and/or the oring not in very good shape(I now use a wrench on these bottles at the advice of Matt from Cycle-Tek).
We have guages on our bottle regulators(high pressure) as well as one in line before our solenoids(low pressure). The low pressure ones showing what's going to hit the cylinder from the solenoid is fine since if they have 120-140psi we know we will have that next shift(although we only "know" that is good for that next shift or three). That's because with Co2... pressure has nothing to do with volume. Volume of Co2 is by wieght and the only thing pressure can tell you is that the total lack of it means you are out(yeah, kinda late huh). In other words, you can still have 800+psi but virtually be out of co2(and which you will find out in a short amount of shifts). Like I mentioned, we have high pressure gauges on our regulators but we have learned to use them more as a reference of whether the bottle is "on" and whether or not it's "not empty".
Look at it like amperage and voltage... just because you have voltage doesn't mean you have amperage. Best way to tell if you have co2 is to weigh the bottle.
My refill setup will be here tommorow(no more getting the wife to make paintball shop runs to fill my bottles).
Lietoome, congrats on a really cool father's day,
Todd
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted June 18, 2007 01:09 PM
Thanks for all the help. I bought a high pressure gauge today and I'm having the bottle filled so I can start troubleshooting the pressure loss.
When I got home, I opened the bottle all the way and it just gave me a quick sigh and nothing. Empty as can be. I'm almost certain that the loss was on the bottle fitting. It was the one place i didn't put the tape(followed the directions too the letter).
All the help is really appreciated, you guys save me a lot of time and effort when it comes to unfamiliar territory.
....damn I can't wait to get my rear sprocket!!!
Thanks, Todd.
L2M
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted June 18, 2007 02:53 PM
1200 TO 1500 PSI
SEND ME AN EMAIL TO
WILHITERACING@CONWAYCORP.NET
I WILL GET YOU SOME PICS IF I HAVE THEM ON THIS COMPUTER, I AM ABOUT 15 MILES FROM NEW ORLEANS RIGHT NOW ON BUSINESS. FIXING TO TAKE A SHOWER AND HEAD TOWARDS THE COAST FOR SOME SEA FOOD..........
THIS LITTLE TOWN THEY HAVE ME LOOKING AT HOUSES IN HAS ALL CHAIN RESTAURANTS........., PICAYUNE, MS............WOO HOO!!!!!!!!
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted June 20, 2007 09:40 AM
I got a handle on my leak, but...
The system seems to be holding fine, but the new gauge I put on is not seating completely to the Nos bottle. I'm still getting a leak from the bullet shaped connector that had the gauge attached. Its really pissing me off. I removed the gauge and it works fine now with no leakes. Now I gotta figure out how to keep this damn bullet shaped connector from leaking. I guess pics would help...
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted June 20, 2007 03:42 PM
Pics were sent, but my low pressure guage was not on in the pic......, it is mounted to the right (in the pic, forward on the bike, in between the regulator, (gold and silver), and the valve............
The high pressure guage tells how much pressure is going into the regulator........, and then the low pressure guage tells you how much you have going out ...............
I have the bottle upside down, because I have a siphon tube........., (or in this case, anti siphon tube), installed.........., running only on vapor......, i turn the bottle off if it will sit for more than 15 minutes, just in case.........., and i can wait until I am about to do a burnout to turn it on, with my right hand, while I am on the bike........, thats why i have it mounted in the location it is.............., Chain guard was custom made in the machine shop .......Speed by Nox, from a 3" by 2" by 1/8" of angle aluminum...........
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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smokinzx14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 20, 2007 07:36 PM
Muzzy kit come with NO siphon tube........., But you do install siphon tube if you have his N20 kit..... Get your leaks fixed ...Then >>>>> make the upper hole in the ram a little larger ...The ram fits to tight to the mounting bolts and tends to bind the shifter ...You got to have a little slop in there and be able to side it back and forth on the mounting bolt.... Trust me on this one >> i have installed 3 of these shifters...I use n20 and not co2 , while i never got 800 shifts i never missed a shift ....My guess is i get 300+ shifts per full...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Wolf Racing
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted June 21, 2007 02:41 AM
You can weigh the bottle instead of gauges. Not sure what the lbs numbers are but in metric, the bottle will weigh around 850grams empty and 1350grams at 900lbs pressure.
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted June 21, 2007 06:28 AM
smokin, mine slides freely. very freely. I'll take my bottle the gauge and see if the place that sold me thegauge can lead me to the light.
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rgeorge
Expert Class
Posts: 220
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posted June 21, 2007 08:42 AM
Edited By: rgeorge on 21 Jun 2007 10:36
Jeff,
I really can't tell for sure what the fittings are from the picture but I can take a guess at it.
Guess 1:
1/8NPT from the bottle valve
1/8NPT to -4AN adapter like this
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an816.php
then
-4AN female swivel to 1/8NPT adapter like this
http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=137
1/8NPT into the gauge block.
OR
Guess2:
bottle
NPT to -4AN adapter
-4AN female-female swivel coupler like this
http://www.bakerprecision.com/adapt18.htm
-4AN male boss that extends from the gauge block
If its the AN sealing surface that leaks it can be cured with one of these.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/del37fittings.php
Do not over-tighten AN fittings in an attempt to get them to stop leaking.
If its the NPT connection that is leaking, give the adapter a float test. 
Then try again with a new one.
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted June 21, 2007 10:11 AM
Edited By: lietoome on 21 Jun 2007 11:12
george, you hit it right on the head. The fittings that come with the muzzy kit are shorter and require the 37 degree fitting seal to work with the gauge/block that I'm using. FAK!
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted July 17, 2007 05:19 AM
I'm not sure what the baseline kill time is on the digikill, but thats what I'm using. Haven't had time to fix my leak, so I haven't messed with it at all. The one night I had it working properly, it seemed to work fine. Anyone using different timing than the baseline setup? More kill time? Less?
thanks again.
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