johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted June 16, 2002 06:28 AM
muzzy air shifter problem?
I am having a problem with my Muzzy air shifter. Have had it installed 3 weeks and at first everything worked fine except shifting a little slow especially from 1st to 2nd gear. I talked to Doug last week by phone and he made a few suggestions. Since talking to Doug I have bigger problems. It now shifts extremly slow or misses shifts altogether. The engine kill timing is working as well as ever. I can turn off the CO-2 and electric shift the bike under full power by preloading the shifter perfectly. When the CO-2 is on and I trigger the button the solonoid pressurizes the cylinder but does not release pressure to the cylinder until I release the button,which is the only thing different I can see. I have also experienced a problem several times with the solonoid leaking. According to Doug the regulator pressure is set at about 145#. My solonoid is rated at 125#. I don't know if this is a problem or not. Everything in my ZX-12 engine is Muzzy because of the consistent high quality from them and the support of Doug Meyer to boards like this one. I will call monday and see if Doug can help with this one. Anyone else with any ideas?
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
  
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted June 16, 2002 07:43 AM
quote:
I am having a problem with my Muzzy air shifter. Have had it installed 3 weeks and at first everything worked fine except shifting a little slow especially from 1st to 2nd gear. I talked to Doug last week by phone and he made a few suggestions. Since talking to Doug I have bigger problems. It now shifts extremly slow or misses shifts altogether. The engine kill timing is working as well as ever. I can turn off the CO-2 and electric shift the bike under full power by preloading the shifter perfectly. When the CO-2 is on and I trigger the button the solonoid pressurizes the cylinder but does not release pressure to the cylinder until I release the button,which is the only thing different I can see. I have also experienced a problem several times with the solonoid leaking. According to Doug the regulator pressure is set at about 145#. My solonoid is rated at 125#. I don't know if this is a problem or not. Everything in my ZX-12 engine is Muzzy because of the consistent high quality from them and the support of Doug Meyer to boards like this one. I will call monday and see if Doug can help with this one. Anyone else with any ideas?
If you figure it outlet me know.Doug has been also very responsive with my shifter problems but the problems are still there and now my motor is apart.It almost never shifts while doing a burnout and misses about every 10th shift going down the track.My kill box seems to be working fine and there is no leaks.When i pull off the air line from the solenoid it seems to spray at exactly the same time the motor stumbles.I don't know anymore but i keep getting told i'm the only one with the problem.
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johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted June 16, 2002 12:18 PM
Thanks for the reply cowboy. When you push the button (horn)does youre air solonoid pulse (open and release pressure) or does it stay open as long as you hold the button? My air solonoid stays open as long as I hold the button down. When it was shifting properly it would momentarily pulse on and release pressure. The engine kill timing on my Muzzy shifter is working OK, it will shift perfectly every time if I turn off the CO-2 and preload the shifter under full throttle and hit the button. My problem seems to be in the pneumatic side of the system. I know I have to get it fixed before I bend a shift fork or worse.
John Stewart
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted June 16, 2002 02:59 PM
CLEAN the solenoid
Go here I have detailed instructions on how to fix this problem http://www.dontbescaredracing.com/photos/misc/solenoid/
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted June 16, 2002 06:44 PM
John,when i push the horn button the solenoid only opens momentarily like it is supposed to.Bergie,is your shifter working now?
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted June 16, 2002 09:42 PM
Yes
It seems to work fine, I put a new switch on it (6 pole rocker switch from radio shack) instead of the lightweight toggle that snapped off twice. I finally figured out the wiring scheme using a test light (if you saw my previous post) because I forgot to take note of the wiring when I removed the original, anyway, it's on and working. I haven't track tested it yet since I cleaned the solenoid and rewired it but it appears to be working fine. Will give you the update after this coming weekend of racing.
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johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted June 17, 2002 08:47 AM
muzzy shifter
Bergie I assume the problem you are referring to is the solonoid sticking, not the fact that my solonoid stays electrically energised as long as I hold down the shift button. Part of the problem with the dirty solonoids may be moisture in the CO-2. I intend to switch from CO-2 to dry nitrogen. You can buy oil pumped dry nitrogen which we use in the refigeration business. This nitrogen is virtually moisture free if it is the oil pumped variety. You won't find it at a paint ball shop but welding supply houses usually carry it. I have set up to fill my own bottle from a 45# tank I purchased.
____________
2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted June 17, 2002 06:17 PM
muzzy shifter
Bergie will you check something for me? When you push the horn/shifter button and hold it down does the solonoid momentarily open and then close and exhaust sending a pulse of pressure to the shift actuator or does it stay energised as long as you hold the button down? Cowboy did you check this out on you're shifter or are you operating off memory?
I am getting some conflicting information from another source that the shift solonoid is supposed to stay energised pressurizing the shift actuator as long as you hold the button down. This is not how I remember my shifter working when first installed it and it was working properly, but I could be wrong.
John
____________
2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted June 17, 2002 09:29 PM
quote:
Bergie will you check something for me? When you push the horn/shifter button and hold it down does the solonoid momentarily open and then close and exhaust sending a pulse of pressure to the shift actuator or does it stay energised as long as you hold the button down? Cowboy did you check this out on you're shifter or are you operating off memory?
I am getting some conflicting information from another source that the shift solonoid is supposed to stay energised pressurizing the shift actuator as long as you hold the button down. This is not how I remember my shifter working when first installed it and it was working properly, but I could be wrong.
John
I am working from memory but i'm 99% sure it only energizes momentarily when you hold the horn down.Then won't open again unyil you let off and get back on again.
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johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted June 23, 2002 05:58 AM
muzzy shifter
talked to doug meyer about shifting problem and whether the shifter should cycle when the button is held down. guess my memory is faulty (no big surprise) since he checked the circuit and says the solonoid will not release until you release the horn button. Doug sent me a replacement solonoid and relay. end of problem it shifts better than it did originally now.
john
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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Cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted June 23, 2002 04:36 PM
quote:
talked to doug meyer about shifting problem and whether the shifter should cycle when the button is held down. guess my memory is faulty (no big surprise) since he checked the circuit and says the solonoid will not release until you release the horn button. Doug sent me a replacement solonoid and relay. end of problem it shifts better than it did originally now.
john
Oh man,that must be my problem then because my relay only lets out one hit when i hold the button.Doug,I'll be calling you Monday.
Dave Galbiati-Maple Ridge Motor Sports Racing
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted June 24, 2002 07:21 AM
K, here's the bottom line on this. When you depress the shift (horn) button you make a ground that completes the circuit that energizes the air solenoid through a relay. This circuit STAYS energized as long as you hold the button down (just like the horn). If you test this by removing the air line from the ram, you should have a continuous flow of regulated gas from the line as long as the button is down. IF you test it by removing the ram "rod" from the shift arm, you will only get a "burst" of gas which sufficient to move the rod to it's full travel. This may seem like an intermittent shot but it is not. The gas has just moved and pressurized the ram cylinder to full travel where it will remain until the pressure is released. When mounted on the bike and in use, it is the shift return mechanism that returns the ram to accept another stroke. Of course you CAN'T GET to the next shift without releasing the button so that you can push it again, so this "seems" like a momentary function. (Do not confuse this with the electronic ignition "kill" box which IS a momentary function.)
A couple things can happen, though. The shift solenoid can get dirty and stick, and it can freeze up if you are not using a dry gas. Also, I suppose the relay could go bad, but that would be pretty rare and I doubt the "failure" would be so consistent. The relay would most likely not function or would stick "on".
You could test the solenoid by unplugging the two leads from the harness and applying 12 volts. The solenoid should energize, "open" and "close" when you remove the current.
Remember NEVER actually shift the bike while it is not running and moving, as you will bend shift forks.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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Cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted June 24, 2002 04:25 PM
muzzy shifter
Thanks Doug,i'm going to test this all out tomorrow and see what i can find.
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