entropy
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posted February 05, 2007 07:26 AM
hmmm... no filters hurt hp??
Back to back Factory Pro dyno data; ran with filters in, took em out, ran again 30 min later.
(de-oiled K&N's)
_______w/filters_____wo/filters
5000_____77_________74
6000_____94_________94
7000_____125_______123
8000_____153_______151
9000_____169_______169
10000____176_______176
11000____179_______173 (maybe another issue going on here)
any thoughts?
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garth285
Expert Class
200+mph 2011 ZX10r
Posts: 300
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posted February 05, 2007 09:04 AM
What bike was this?
We did a back to back run on a zx14 with full system pc3 no flies and yellow box and we modded the air screen on the stock filter but then we also took the filter completely out and we gained 4hp peak power and 2-3 across the board, done with a brand new factroy pro dyno.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted February 05, 2007 10:44 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 5 Feb 2007 10:45
pretty weird, eh??
what hp are you getting on the fact pro with yr 14???
The bike is a ZX12.
I'm doing cam testing and this set didn't seem to deliver what i expected
BUT my hp may be flaky at 10500 & up due to FI issue.
Work in progress 
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zrxdean
Needs a job
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posted February 05, 2007 02:48 PM
Did A/F change with and without? -Dean
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 06, 2007 03:44 AM
Edited By: entropy on 6 Feb 2007 03:47
quote:
Did A/F change with and without? -Dean
Dean,
unfortunately my LM-1 filled up and didn't record the no filters run so no nofilter AF, and,
unfortunately i don't (yet) understand well the relationship between AF and CO
but here is the CO change:
_______w/filters_____wo/filters___CO change
5000_____77_________74______+0.3 (richer)
6000_____94_________94______-0.3 (leaner)
7000_____125_______123______-0.9 (leaner)
8000_____153_______151______-0.9 (leaner)
9000_____169_______169______-2.1 (leaner)
10000____176_______176______+0.1 (richer)
11000____179_______173______-0.4 (leaner)
Honestly, I don't know what to think about the filters/no-filters data.
BUT the bright side is that holding the motor at 11000 under load for 3-4 sec will allow me to see individual injector duty cycle (PC-USB) and thus MAYBE bring an end to my year long quest for the lost hp
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted February 06, 2007 06:46 AM
Could the filters be 'straightening' the airflow somehow? I wonder if you would see any difference in the real world, with pressure in the intake tube.
Keep the details coming Karl, this stuff is interesting.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 06, 2007 07:27 AM
I don't have a clue of what's going on in the airbox around the inlets, all i know is that it's "complicated".
An expert told me to be aware that running without filters MAY be bad ju-ju, so i decided to do a test.
My dyno guy loves to do tests and my motor SEEMS to be holding up...
More tests on Sat
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Wideout
Expert Class
Posts: 300
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posted February 06, 2007 11:46 AM
My head's still swirling from that conversation between you and Andy.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted February 07, 2007 07:58 PM
How did the injector duty cycle look with the sustained RPM level? Have you put the fatty RC ones in yet?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 07, 2007 10:45 PM
i didn't get duty cycle, and haven't put the Rc's in yet.
Next time, we're getting after duty cycle.
But first i gotta solve a gremlin i seem to have induced while goofing with my bike. It spins like a mofo, has spark but won't even pop.
I musta broke a wire somewhere. grrrrrrrr... :mad
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
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posted February 08, 2007 06:45 AM
Karl,
Did you seal up the slots where the filters go in with tape or something with the no filter pulls or did you leave the tops open?
Dan
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 08, 2007 08:21 AM
quote:
Karl,
Did you seal up the slots where the filters go in with tape or something with the no filter pulls or did you leave the tops open?
Dan
sealed em tighter than a bull's ass in fly time.
(with HVAC aluminum tape)
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted February 08, 2007 08:04 PM
entropy;
Are your injectors fireing?!?
I learned a valuable lesson back when I installed the 1270 kit and Muzzy Pump.
If the ECU for some reason is powered up and it does NOT see the injectors, it will shut them down untill it is power cycled. I just unplugged the Major white connector behind the battery cover.
Another problem I encountered that was injector related was when I had them serviced at RC. When I received them, they sat a couple weeks before installation. Even though I was getting a signal to them, they did not function because they were "Frozen" from the cleaning residue.
Just a shot in the dark. Hope you figure out the problem.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted February 10, 2007 07:10 AM
Edited By: entropy on 10 Feb 2007 07:11
psycho,
thanks for the tips, i cut n' pasted them into my info book 
turnd out that a piece of miss-information in the manual caused me a lot of grief.
Manual says that ECU pin #51(pwr feed to injectors) should have 12.5 min when key is on.
after a day of trying to figure out why it only had .3V, i gave up and did what i should have in the 1st place. Do a compression test.
compression was ZERO.
After flipping the missmarked (thanks Lee...) intake cam 180 degrees the motor fired up instantly.
oh well, another lesson learned...
today its back to the dyno
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted February 11, 2007 06:47 AM
I had cams 180 out one time (both). I misplaced my APE instructions for proper orientation of the timing marks. I assumed I remembered! Well, you can imagine the rest of that story!!
I was just glad there was no hards parts contacting each other!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 11, 2007 07:42 AM
quote:
I had cams 180 out one time (both). I misplaced my APE instructions for proper orientation of the timing marks. I assumed I remembered! Well, you can imagine the rest of that story!!
I was just glad there was no hards parts contacting each other!
I'm glad that I'm not the only one...
Sometimes i just wanna give up when i do the dumb shit i do.
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted February 13, 2007 10:31 AM
At speed air ram effect will influence.... a factor to consider...
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 14, 2007 02:39 AM
quote:
At speed air ram effect will influence.... a factor to consider...
yep, i agree.
I will run the air filters at the Texas Mile and compare the manifold air pressure to the runs i made last oct without filters.
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted February 15, 2007 01:55 PM
it is a trade off ( straight static flow vs. ram) but for the mile you want NO filters. remember ram air starts at 37 mph and builds from there
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 15, 2007 09:47 PM
quote:
it is a trade off ( straight static flow vs. ram) but for the mile you want NO filters. remember ram air starts at 37 mph and builds from there
hey, JC!
If all goes as planned at the Mile i'll run filters 1st pass and log MAP, then 2nd pass run no filters to compare MAP and mph. That should tell.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted February 18, 2007 07:15 AM
entropy;
what type of snorkel will you be running?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted February 18, 2007 02:00 PM
quote:
entropy;
what type of snorkel will you be running?
OEM, it is sturdier than the hans, and i don't wanna do too many expriments at the same time.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted February 19, 2007 07:38 AM
Good!
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