entropy
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posted August 28, 2006 04:56 AM
ping buddy
Buddy,
my cell has no coverage at the hotel here (central Mass), but I talked with Scott on Sun am.
please expect yr head to arrive at yr house on wed. Scott finished it on Sunday, and it'll be sent out today, 2 day air. A bit less than $250 incl delivery.
we have all we need to put it together, see you bright & early Fri am, eh?
Karl
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buddy
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posted August 28, 2006 05:32 AM
Yea!
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johnnycheese
Pro
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posted August 29, 2006 03:04 AM
call if you need something Karl
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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entropy
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posted August 29, 2006 03:17 AM
JC,
thanks for the offer; I THINK we have everything needed (except my level of skill) 
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 01, 2006 01:48 PM
How's the build going? Is it purring yet? Give us the scoop!
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osti33
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posted September 01, 2006 01:54 PM
quote:
How's the build going? Is it purring yet? Give us the scoop!
Yeah, what's the story??
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Wideout
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posted September 01, 2006 05:32 PM
Close
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osti33
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posted September 01, 2006 06:59 PM
quote:
Close
Details man! Details!! You guys are killing me.
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entropy
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posted September 01, 2006 10:39 PM
yesterday we got most of it together and will degree the cams this am. hopefully put it in the bike today
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SUPERRDAVE
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posted September 02, 2006 05:50 AM
GOOD JOB,hope it goes well.I'm ready to him rolling again...
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allways miss you
Tony "Catfish Vernon
Ken "Baby Jesus" Johnson
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entropy
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posted September 03, 2006 02:56 AM
motor in, cranked to bring up oil pressure - OK; will do cold cranking pressure test and (hopefully) fire it up this morning. Can't fire up an open Muzzy's sidewinder at midnight
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 04, 2006 06:59 AM
 Edited By: TRNorBRN6001 on 4 Sep 2006 08:01
Did your neighbors have Buddy's sidewinder serenade them yet? What wonderful melodies they will hear!
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entropy
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posted September 04, 2006 07:14 AM
Gary: nope, we got it all in then seemed to hit an ign timing issue. Got real good cold cranking compression pressure (290-300), but it wouldn't fire. Prolly something about the cam/ign trigger. Buddy's pal in Dallas will figure it out for sure, so he took his bike back to Dallas.
How is yr motor coming??? ready for the mile???
BTW: thanks to Matt for arriving just in time to get the motor off the bench & into the bike  !!!
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buddy
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posted September 04, 2006 09:41 AM
About 30 minutes after getting the info on the correct setting for the cam position sender, I think that motor will be as strong and fast a motor as can be built for it's size.
The last 3 days were a very good experience for me. A little hard to keep up with Karl, as I think he only sleeps on maybe the third day.
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Wideout
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posted September 04, 2006 02:15 PM
Glad to be there. Thanks for the sweet deal on the tire, Karl.
Good luck with it Buddy. Keep us posted.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 05, 2006 05:16 AM
keep us up to date Buddy, can't wait to see ya running at the track again.
JC is slipping a piston in this week to see what CR will be and this coming weekend we will be putting it together as he will be off on Sat and Sun. So we hope to maybe have it in the frame on Sunday, if everything goes smoothly.
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entropy
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posted September 05, 2006 06:29 AM
Edited By: entropy on 5 Sep 2006 07:32
Gary,
great to see you are making progress!!!
what pistons, block, head, base shim and #/type of gaskets, thickness of head gasket are you using?? I have done the cc-ing so many times I can give you pretty close CR from that info.
I would be much more concerned with measuring quench height than CR
(and it is real easy to do accurately using solder, much less trouble than cc-ing the cc chamber)
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 05, 2006 12:12 PM
JC will be doing all the cc-ing and playing with the clay to figure that up this week as I believe the head and block have been shaved a touch, but not sure how much so he is going to figure all that out so when I pop in on Sat it will all go together like magic. I do not have my folder at the office with all my info, but off the top of my head: stock block might be shaved a little from Millenium, off the shelf 86mm JE 13:1 pistons, cometic triple layer head gasket (can not remember thickness off hand), .080" base plate, and Carpenter head might be shaved a little. Nothing special, just a basic stroker 12.
Isn't there a specific range on quench height that most builders want to stay in?
I do hear you are the spread sheet master!!! I'll have JC give ya a call when he figures out the unknowns.
Curious to see what Buddy's engine puts out on a Dyno. You might have a new career for ya when all your kids graduate and get married off.
Thank you much Entropy
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 05, 2006 12:29 PM
Oops almost forgot, and them Muzzy cams that their real proud of too.
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buddy
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posted September 05, 2006 02:55 PM
I got the info I needed to set the cam position sender. The motor took about .25 seconds to start and sounds like a race motor should, better than it ever has sounded. I can't run it long, as the radiator apparantly got a hole in it during the last time out. I will take it out tonight and get it fixed, then drive it around a little for a little break in, after a couple of heat cycles, then off to the track.
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Johnnycheese
Pro
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posted September 05, 2006 04:03 PM
Gary ,Sunday Just found out wire pull on Saturday with 600 wire :-(
oh and new price on the wire Wholesale is $14.00 a foot
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entropy
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posted September 06, 2006 03:39 AM
quote:
I got the info I needed to set the cam position sender. The motor took about .25 seconds to start and sounds like a race motor should, better than it ever has sounded. I can't run it long, as the radiator apparantly got a hole in it during the last time out. I will take it out tonight and get it fixed, then drive it around a little for a little break in, after a couple of heat cycles, then off to the track.
ALLRIGHT, BUDDY!!!!!!
Now the question is just how close that trigger has to be???
Does it directly control ign timing? So if it were advanced a few degrees with respect to exact setting, the motor would be running with ignition timing advanced???
Or is close good enough????
Let me start a new thread on that because I am interested...
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
:thumbsup
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entropy
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posted September 06, 2006 04:09 AM
Edited By: entropy on 6 Sep 2006 05:15
Gary,
I am NO expert, but i have paid attention to the relation of quench height to cc volume to CR to cold cranking pressure on these JE pistons we all seem to be using on the 4.6mm stroker 12. I learned a whole lot from JohnnyCheese , an then got additional direct advice from everyone who would return my emails
The only variable you can change at this point in yr build is the thickness of base spacer + the number/thickness of the base gaskets to give you the desired quench height. CR will be dependant upon quench (and any mods done to yr head)
The experts seem to like around .040" quench for dragracing, somewhat less for LSR where going into the limiter is not as much an issue.
With yr set up .080" spacer + 2 X .010" ss gaskets should give about .040-.042" quench height using an UNSHAVED block.
If yr block is milled you may need to add a .005" copper base gasket (from cometic) to bring it up to .040"
At .040" +/- quench,
- with an UNMILLED head, the CR should end up around 14:1 +/-;
- with a MILLED head CR will be higher, e.g. my ole (un)faithful motor with milled head is at 15.3+/- at .040 quench.
there's several ways to measure quench, but after trying several, I get REALLY consistent results using:
- 2 pieces of .060" solder (make em the same length, .150" or so),
- place on the front & back of the piston in the quench area.
- hold em in place with a dab o' grease
- set up 2 cyl to double check
- put the pistons below TDC (no need to have the rings on)
- bolt on the head, torque it down
- turn the motor through TDC, and the pieces of solder will be crushed to the quench height
- take off the head
- measure both the pieces and the ave will be yr quench height
a lot of ways to do this but i found this way to be the easiest and it gives results repeatable to .001"
quote:
JC will be doing all the cc-ing and playing with the clay to figure that up this week as I believe the head and block have been shaved a touch, but not sure how much so he is going to figure all that out so when I pop in on Sat it will all go together like magic. I do not have my folder at the office with all my info, but off the top of my head: stock block might be shaved a little from Millenium, off the shelf 86mm JE 13:1 pistons, cometic triple layer head gasket (can not remember thickness off hand), .080" base plate, and Carpenter head might be shaved a little. Nothing special, just a basic stroker 12.
Isn't there a specific range on quench height that most builders want to stay in?
I do hear you are the spread sheet master!!! I'll have JC give ya a call when he figures out the unknowns.
Curious to see what Buddy's engine puts out on a Dyno. You might have a new career for ya when all your kids graduate and get married off.
Thank you much Entropy
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 06, 2006 06:56 AM
Nice, your solder action is cool. Not an expert, but in the same league from what I hear. Your too humble. You have more knowledge and capabillity on the 12 than 99% of motorcycle mechanics, and it's just a hobby for ya.
JC hope ya get to keep 50' of that stuff to re-sale so ya can buy us some Popeye's on Sunday! Can't beat that spicey dark stuff along with a family size of red beans and rice.
Mr. Hill you don't know what your missing out on............................................ just kidd'n ya.
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osti33
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posted September 06, 2006 12:42 PM
Edited By: osti33 on 6 Sep 2006 13:45
Another easy way to measure quench/piston to head clearance is Deck Height + Compressed head gasket thickness = quench/piston to head.
For example if your Deck height is .013" and compressed head gasket thickness is .027" your quench/piston to head will be .040".
Just a different way to do it. The solder also works very well. 
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