mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 15, 2006 12:22 PM
Big motor choices and suggestions
I posted the same thing over in ZX12 zone but afterwards thought I might get a better response from here so a repost...
OK I've had the bike for awhile now and like everything I own it's time to take it apart and make it "better". I'm looking for opinions on the route to take, my question is 1270, 1290, 1317, 1375... I primarily ride on the street but have been to the 1/8 mile a few times and will be doing much more of that and 1/4 here this summer. Leaving it stock pretty much isn't going to happen so get me on the right path to big HP (turbo isn't an option)
So if you had it to do over which way would you go, I know the 1317 is probably the most expensive but I do like the idea of big CC without having to stroke. My apprehension to stroke is I'm afraid to lose street ridability and dependability.
I've got a dry shot on it now and that will be conveying as will my full Muzzy exhaust and PC. I assume that which ever way I go I'll be replacing the fuel pump and beefing up the clutch.
What should I do with the head, any recommendations on what can or should be done and who to send it to?
Thanks in advance.
  
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 16, 2006 05:35 AM
The most efficient motors are big bore short stroke......, 1317 sounds real good......
Cheeseman told me a while back that the best rout is a 1290 with good cams.
I have almost 1/4 of the contingency from JE right now for a kit. Each win at my local track gets you 50 dollars from JE towards one of thier kits.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted May 16, 2006 06:04 AM
Sell your shit, get a ZX14. Done.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 16, 2006 06:37 AM
I'd go with Rac4it, but ya might get a little more if ya part it out.
If ya just got to have a 12 on the the street and your on a budget then 1270 or 1290
will do ya real nice.
If ya got deep pockets and don't care how much your going to spend, then do a
1427 and be the king of 12's. Just be sure to address the cooling and clearance
needs.
All the above motor setups will handle what you are running with your dry Nos, so
no worries there.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 16, 2006 11:29 AM
For a primary street bike, i don't think a stroker is worth the trouble.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 17, 2006 05:51 AM
What trouble would that be?
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 17, 2006 08:33 AM
Some have no trouble,but other have heat and starting problems.
Strokers really don't like traffic at all especially 00 and 01 because
of the smaller radiator and single fan.
24v if you want to know you can start when you get ready and separate charging the spare battery.
It's ~1000 dollars for a less reliable 10 hp that you will rarely use on the street.
many racers consider 1000 for 10hp a good deal.
Nothing like a good stock crank for trouble free miles.
IMO.
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted May 17, 2006 10:11 AM
quote:
Some have no trouble,but other have heat and starting problems.
Strokers really don't like traffic at all especially 00 and 01 because
of the smaller radiator and single fan.
24v if you want to know you can start when you get ready and separate charging the spare battery.
It's ~1000 dollars for a less reliable 10 hp that you will rarely use on the street.
many racers consider 1000 for 10hp a good deal.
Nothing like a good stock crank for trouble free miles.
IMO.
if youre willing to shell out the money for the stroker kit then buying an extra small battery (odyssey pc310) and wiring it in parallel isnt a big deal. obviously a stroker would generate more heat- but a stock 12 puts out plenty heat as it is- these "negatives" to having a stroker are like splitting hairs. i agree that a stroker isnt exactly the best idea for a daily driver and certainly not if you sit in a lot of traffic- but i did it and dont regret it- and i have a sense of satisfaction that owning a (stockish) zx-14 couldnt bring. besides ive got about 23 more cc's. ill let you know how i feel when i try to sell it and only get a small fraction of the money i invested back.
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 17, 2006 10:56 AM
I think we are saying the same thing.
The 1361/1375 is a great motor, just not MY first choice for a daily street bike.
I had a 1361 streetbike that USUALLY started even when hot on 1 battery . Ran great as long as you could keep moving. It did not like rush hour traffic, and i would not take it to bike week of high traffic events. Those are easy situations to avoid, except sometimes i like bike events and riding to work which put my bike in rush traffic watching the temp guage and sometimes sitting on the side of the expressway waiting for it to cool. For me that took the fun out of riding to work. Many time I wanted to ride but didn't because of the drama.
Weekend and night rides were great. The 1270/1272 is a much more flexible engine.
I have not tried the 1290 but i would think it reponds to traffic well.
Everyone has different needs and requirement from their toys.
I have a friend with a 4dr long bed custom truck slammed so low that it scrubs on
driveway entrances and speed bumps with a empty bed.
He loves it but for me it would be useless.
YMMV
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 17, 2006 11:01 AM
If cooling and starting are the only problems, then it ain't much of a big deal.
I had the same problems here in Texas with my stocker in traffic, so I am sure
a 1270/1290/1317/1320 would have heat issues too. I understand that the increased
stroke and especially the higher c/r taxes the starter system, but most starting problems are heat related, and it's not a big deal to drop in a small second battery. A larger/oversized radiator and/or a real cooling fan can easily be put in with a little work. It might cost ya a couple hundred here and there but in the end I think it would be worth the added HP and torque you would enjoy on the street.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 18, 2006 05:36 AM
Hopefully everyone that's posted here is also following in the 12r zone. I'm pretty much to the point now though that a stroker isn't for me. I ride way to much on the street to worry about the additional issues. As for the second battery obviously money isn't the issue there, if an extra 50 bucks would kill the project then I shouldn't start that project, to me it's the space taken up by the second battery and my perceived heat and reliability issues with a stroker, again that's because I ride a lot of miles on the street and do go to the crowded bike events on a somewhat regular basis.
At the moment I'm leaning heavily towards the 1290 and having Larry breathe a little of his majic inside the motor at the same time.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 18, 2006 06:19 AM
You will still have overheating problems especially in crowded bike events, unless you live way up North then I would not know. At least scoot the radiator forward a touch and put a real fan in, you would probably loose some weight too since those stock fan/fans are kind
of heavy. But if you want to do it right and $275-350 ain't much for ya to spend then have a custom oversized radiator made.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 18, 2006 12:01 PM
Who can do the radiator? That sounds like the ticket.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 19, 2006 06:09 AM
Check with your local radiator places and ask if they do custom radiators. Go to a couple
shops to get estimates as thier prices will very considerably and check thier work out. Expect it to take a little while.Depending on what configuration you run you may have to trim the inner plastic a touch, but if you have newer 12 you may not have to get a bigger radiator. I have an 00 so it needed to get done. If you have a newer one wait and see if it needs one or not before ya spend the money.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 19, 2006 01:12 PM
welded strokers generally arn't as reliable. The 12r's meal ticket is when its revved up high. Go with the 1287 kit and degree your cams you should be good..
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 19, 2006 01:28 PM
Just curious, what part of a welded stroker isn't reliable? I do believe them strokers
can rev up to stock red line and 700 RPM more if needed.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 21, 2006 03:58 AM
they can and do,'
but many have rodbearing problems soon
afterward.
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zx12girl
Pro
Adrenaline Junkie
Posts: 1740
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posted May 21, 2006 07:47 AM
My only input is that we have a 1270 that we put in our bike in 2001. We have been drag racing, spraying and riding it hard on the street (short and long distance) for 5 years.
No issues period. No overheating problems, No starting Issues.
It may not get you all of the power that you are looking for but the reliability is there.
My only bitch is the stupid clutches in the 2000 ZX12R. Burn them up on a regular basis at the track.
Other than that....I am with rac4it. Ditch the ZX12 and buy a ZX14.
____________
Life is an adventure. Are you driving?
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 23, 2006 07:31 PM
Thanks for the input and the plug for the reliability of the 1270, theat always makes me feel better to hear the good stories when starting a project like this. As for the 14 like I said in the 12R forum I've got WAY too much chrome and other goodies on this bike already to start over on a 14. To be honest it would take me about 10K to get it back to the way I would want it so 3-4K in motor work to this one sounds like a bargain in comparison. ZBesides I stil really like the style of the 12R...
As for the clutches I've got about 3 complete clutch kits that I can swap out pretty quick whenever needed so that's not a big deal to me, pain in the ass, but not a big deal once you get used to it. I don't know if you know this or not (hopefully you do) when you burn the clutch up it's not really dead... All you have to do is take the burnt plates out and hit them with a sand blaster to take the glazing off and they're good as new.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 23, 2006 08:25 PM
If you are burning up clutches, then you have it set up wrong...........
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 24, 2006 04:39 AM
or don't have a lock up... which at this point I don't but will soon.
My only question about the lock up is, and I've never gotten a definitive answer on this, with the lockup installed do you lose the ability to pull in the clutch at higher speeds or does it just get harder to pull? IE if you're doing a burn out can you just yank the clutch in to stop even if the bike was revving at 9500?
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megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted June 08, 2006 04:28 PM
If ya got deep pockets and don't care how much your going to spend, then do a
1427 and be the king of 12's .
...and king of the 14's, my 1361 makes 212 rwhp. 
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted June 08, 2006 07:46 PM
On a zx12, you cant pull it at high wheel speeds...................
who pulls the clutch after a burnout? stop the tire in the mess you just made?
you pull out of the burnout, let off the throttle, when the revs get down to about 2500, pull it in, you will know when, it is a natural thing.......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted June 09, 2006 05:36 AM
1361 ........... 212..............very nice!
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted June 09, 2006 08:44 AM
quote:
Check with your local radiator places and ask if they do custom radiators. Go to a couple
shops to get estimates as thier prices will very considerably and check thier work out. Expect it to take a little while.Depending on what configuration you run you may have to trim the inner plastic a touch, but if you have newer 12 you may not have to get a bigger radiator. I have an 00 so it needed to get done. If you have a newer one wait and see if it needs one or not before ya spend the money.
Did the bigger Rad help? I've also heard that you can get a more powerful fan....
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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