turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 18, 2005 08:19 PM
NOS GET THE MOST OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM
What is Nitrous Oxide?
Chemical Properties
A nitrous oxide molecule is made up of 2 atoms of nitrogen and 1 atom of oxygen. By weight it is 36% oxygen (air is only 23.6% oxygen). At 70° F it takes 760 PSI of vapour pressure to hold nitrous in liquid form. The critical temperature is 97.7° F; at this temp the vapour pressure can no longer hold the nitrous in liquid form. At this point the nitrous turns gaseous and will be at 1069 PSI. As temperature rises further, so will pressure, but it will remain in gaseous form. If you intend to siphon liquid nitrous, it is important to keep the temperature below 97.7°. When liquid nitrous is released, it will go from 760 PSI to 14.7 PSI (normal atmospheric pressure). It will then begin to boil and rapidly expand; the pressure drop will cause the temperature to decrease. Nitrous boils at 129.1°F below zero.
How Nitrous Oxide Injection creates torque
IMPORTANT!!!
Torque is the force that turns the crankshaft and creates acceleration. People are consumed with hp numbers, but hp is not what creates acceleration for winning drag races. Hp does create top end speed which is fine for land speed records or long distance endurance racing where acceleration rate / torque is not what determines the winner. To get the best out of nitrous , you need to utilize the massive torque it provides and concentrate on getting the highest torque across the whole rpm range.
Nitrous oxide systems make large amounts of torque by allowing an engine to burn more fuel at a lower rpm range than normal. Burning more fuel this way creates a longer burn period (and slightly higher cylinder pressures, if the timing is not corrected), that will push down on the pistons with greater average force. When the nitrous is injected into an engine and the initial combustion takes place, it creates enough heat to separate the nitrous oxide into its two components, nitrogen and oxygen. Once separated, the additional oxygen is then free to allow combustion of the additional fuel, while the released nitrogen acts as a buffer against detonation and damps mechanical loads.
To run nitrous successfully and safely, you have to introduce precise amounts of additional fuel with precise amounts of nitrous oxide. All of the extra oxygen provided by the nitrous oxide must have fuel with which to burn or you may damage your engine severely. When the amount of nitrous and the amount of supplemental fuel is controlled precisely, your engine can safely and reliably generate exceptional power increases.
Combustion
Nitrous oxide does not burn, it is an oxidiser. It provides more oxygen, so more fuel can be burned, and the result is more power. The atoms in a nitrous oxide molecule are bonded together. The oxygen is not free, but fortunately the bond breaks down as temperature rises. At 565° F, the bond is broken and the oxygen is then free. Combustion temperatures are much more than 565°, so it's not a problem. By adding nitrous oxide to an engine, the total amount of oxygen is increased while the volume of nitrogen is decreased (as a percentage of the whole). This speeds the burn rate and requires less timing advance for peak output. It is hard for many people to grasp gaining power with less timing, but it's a fact. Peak cylinder pressure must occur at approximately 20°ATDC to make peak power. If you speed the burn rate, peak cylinder pressure will occur too soon. It is easy to run too much ignition advance with nitrous, but too much will not only hurt power, it can quickly bring a nitrous engine into detonation and destroy it.
Detonation
Large power increases achieved by using nitrous oxide can increase the chance of detonation. To keep the engine out of detonation, you must control the extra heat that nitrous can make. The easiest way to do this is to add more fuel. All nitrous systems come with rich jetting to give you a safe starting point. The extra fuel takes away heat and raises the detonation limit. If you don't try to over do it, and keep the hp levels within reason, running slightly richer should be all you'll need to control detonation. Running richer will reduce the power output, but raising the detonation limit will allow more nitrous to be used to get more power.
Nitrous-to-fuel Ratios
The chemically correct nitrous to petrol ratio is 9.649:1. If a nitrous engine runs lean, it can destroy the engine in a matter of seconds. There must be enough fuel to maintain this correct ratio, if there isn't, temperatures rise rapidly. The oxygen that was left over from burning the limited amount of fuel will result is a lean burn situation raising cylinder temperatures and melting components. So don't run lean.
Cooling Effects
Cooler intake air is denser and contains more oxygen atoms per cubic foot. So cooler air will allow more fuel to be burned and in turn, make more power. A 10 degree drop in temperature can add 1 to 1.5% power to an engine. Nitrous oxide boils at -129°F and it will begin to boil as soon as it is injected. This can cause an 80° or so drop in manifold air temperature. Now if we are dealing with say a 400 hp engine, we can see a gain of well over 30 hp from the cooling effect alone. This cooling effect also helps the engine deal with detonation.
Average Power
If you were to build a 350 hp 3.5 Rover V8, it would have to rev to 7000+ rpm to make that kind of power and only make power over a narrow rpm range. A nitrous injected 3.5 Rover V8 making 350 hp would make that power at a much lower rpm with a higher average horsepower. So the nitrous engine will out perform the normally aspirated engine by a healthy margin. The reason is that nitrous flow remains constant no matter what rpm the engine is running at. At lower speeds there is more time for the nitrous to fill the cylinders, so you get more nitrous in the cylinders per power stroke at lower rpm. This will boost torque and consequently power more at low rpm. As rpm increases, you will get less nitrous per power stroke, but the engine will start making more normally aspirated power. This really flattens out the torque curve and widens the power band.
So Why Not Pure Oxygen?
Air has only 23.6% oxygen by weight, the rest is made up largely of nitrogen. That nitrogen does not aid in combustion at all, but it does absorb and carry heat away. When you add nitrous, it has 36% oxygen with the rest being nitrogen. So the more nitrous oxide you add, the less percentage of nitrogen is available to absorb heat. That is why nitrous increases engine heat very rapidly. If we were to add pure oxygen (which has been tried), the percentage of nitrogen would fall even lower as more oxygen was added. We would not be able to add much oxygen before heat was a problem to control. Also compressed oxygen is in a gaseous form, so adding oxygen takes up more room and reduces normally aspirated power, and the amount of nitrogen from it. To put it simply, using nitrous oxide, we can get more oxygen atoms in the engine and have a lot more nitrogen as well. Nitrous can make much more power before heat is uncontrollable.
The Difference between Wet & Dry Systems
A fuel injected dry manifold system uses a nitrous ONLY injector to deliver only nitrous oxide to the intake. A wet manifold system introduces fuel and nitrous into the intake manifold usually through a combined fuel and nitrous injector. With a dry manifold system, the additional fuel is supplied by increasing fuel delivery through the original fuel injectors when the nitrous system is activated. It is called a dry manifold system because there isn't any fuel present in the intake manifold.
How the kit works
The Nitrous oxide injection kit begins with a supply cylinder containing pressurised liquid nitrous oxide. This cylinder is connected by means of a delivery hose to a normally closed electric solenoid valve. This solenoid valve, which is usually mounted in a cool area under the bonnet, is engaged and disengaged via a throttle switch (either a micro-switch or an electronic unit). The fuel solenoid valve receives fuel from a 'T' piece, which is tapped into the fuel delivery line, this is also activated by the same switch. The nitrous oxide and fuel that is to be delivered to the engine's air inlet is conveyed via two delivery lines to an injector mounted in the inlet tract. The amount of nitrous oxide and fuel is adjustable by means of metering jets installed in the solenoid outlet fittings.
Adjusting the power level
The Nitrous kit is designed for multiple power levels. The power level is controlled by metering jets installed in the solenoid outlets / jet holders. To change the power output, all you need to do is install the appropriate set of jets.
Highpower Solenoids VS. Nitrous Express (NX) Solenoids
Starting at the body
The Stainless body of a conventional solenoid weighs nearly 3 times the amount of an HP Pulsoid body. The flow path through a conventional solenoid body causes the gas to change direction 3 times in total. In HP Pulsoids the gas only changes direction once. The fewer the changes in flow direction the more flow you achieve through the unit, making it more efficient. The machining inside a conventional solenoid body (that creates the flow path) is course and very disruptive to flow. This has been designed/machined without any regard to flow and as a consequence will not only cause bad flow but inconsistent flow between solenoids. The machining inside the HP Pulsoid is of a very high quality (as can be seen in the photos) and has no adverse effects on the flow of nitrous or fuel.
The Seat
The seats used in all conventional solenoids are made from stainless steel, which has an irregular and sharp molecular structure. This 'rough' material is erroneously matched with a contrasting 'soft' plunger seal, which results in wear and damage. Machining can't change the physics of a material, so no matter how smooth the steel seems it will still harm the seal.
The HP seat is made from a thermo plastic material which has a spherical molecular structure, similar to the material used for the seal. Because they both have smooth molecular structures neither part will ever wear and in fact polish each other with use.
The Plunger
Most plungers are machined to an acceptable standard and are made from suitable materials.
The plunger seal material used in most solenoids is PTFE, which although seals well, suffers from particle impregnation and retention. The debris digs into the material and stays there, which eventually causes leakage. The companies who sell these solenoids are aware of the problem and offer re-conditioning kits, however it's too late and too little when you've had an engine failure as a consequence of the solenoid leak that could have been prevented by a better design.
The HP Pulsoid uses a unique material, which due to its molecular structure does not wear and actually rejects particles meaning leak free long life operation. As a consequence we do not offer a reconditioning kit for them.
The spring
The spring used in conventional solenoids will obviously do its job but as itÕs an external spring (which needs a bigger chamber to house it), there will be more vaporisation of the nitrous liquid into gas as it passes through the solenoid.
The HP Pulsoid is fitted with an internal spring, which means the size of the chamber is small, so it's not a problem.
The plunger tube/housing.
The plunger tubes in conventional solenoids are made from 3 separate parts that are friction welded together. The friction weld plays a big part in solenoid wear and seizures. The welding process causes the bore to distort, consequently as the solenoid is opened and closed the plunger rubs on the distorted parts of the bore and causes magnetic steel particles to break off. The problem is that these steel particles are then magnetized to the plunger and eventually cause the plunger to seize in the tube/housing. This situation is aggravated by the very close plunger to bore tolerance used in such solenoid designs.
The HP Pulsoid has a UNIQUE plunger tube/housing which is an integral part of the billet alloy body (which you can see on the photograph) and doesnÕt require any welding. The material used is aluminium so if for any reason wear occurred, the particles produced would not be magnetic and would be carried out of the solenoid by the flow of nitrous, etc. The bore to plunger clearance is enough for the plunger to float centrally within the magnetic field without making any contact between the 2 parts. However even if they were to make contact, aluminium is a very good bearing material and thanks to the very smooth machining of the internal bore, wear is still unlikely to be of any consequence.
Nylon Lines vs. Braided SS
NOTE: Our main focus is to give you facts on how nylon line is better for nitrous use to achieve the best performance. The rest of the info is to re-assure you that the nylon is not inferior to braided SS for nitrous use. We are not questioning the quality of braided SS as much as we are noting its poor application for nitrous use. We would not spend triple the amount on our solenoid production costs over the competitors to skimp on the supply line costs if we didn't think nylon was the best for nitrous use over braided SS. We do however supply braided SS from the bottle to the nitrous solenoid for certain track regulation applications and power levels over 150 bhp, as we do not have nylon line big enough to flow optimally yet.
1) Braided can handle more pressure
a) yes it can BUT why do you want to handle more. Nitrous above 1,000 psi is WRONG anyway, and we have the BOV to control pressure from going beyond this pressure, so what's the point of using pipe than can handle 6,000 psi
2) The outer braidÊ"conducts" heat and "holds" heat.
3) People also route the braided pipe near hot engine parts as they think it's indestructible (which vaporizes the liquid to gas) and can result in NO extra performance
4) The fittings at the ends of the braided pipeÊmay notÊhave a much bigger boreÊthan the bore of our nylon pipe, but that's the core of the problem. The pipe itself is MUCH bigger and as the liquid passes through the fittings it expands and dilutes as it passes into the large bore pipe.ÊNONE of this applies to our pipe as the fittings are external to the pipe.
5) The MUCH larger bore of the braided pipe acts as a reservoir for the initial gaseous (NOT LIQUID) build-up. This results in a DRAMATIC loss in performance if it is not PURGED (WASTED) from the pipe prior to EVERY use. The VERY small bore of our pipe means there is MINIMAL gas build-up so a PURGE (WASTE) solenoid is NOT NEEDED.
6) In US kits the braided pipe comes in a fixed length and you have to coil up the surplus, which resultsÊin anÊunnecessarily LARGER waste of gas. My pipe can be cut to the MINIMUM length required ONLY.
7) The braided pipe is too bulky to run inside the car so it is usually run underneath the car (where it's VERY HOT). This vaporizes the liquid even more, producing MORE WASTE gas and poor power. Nylon pipe can be run with the wiring loom inside the car where it is relatively cool.
8) Because nylon pipe "looks" like it will melt, but will not. "Sensible" people route it so it's well away from heat (exhausts), this means the pipe is cooler (avoiding vaporization). If the pipe burst (which is NOT dangerous), it means the route is wrong and needs more thought, thus preventing a power loss due to heat build up in the pipe
9) At some point the pipe comes into contact with electrical components. The braided hose may rub through wires or insulation and cause a short circuit resulting in an electrical FIRE (seen this a couple of times). This is NOT even a low risk factor with nylon pipe.
*Note*: Words from an unbiased professional in the high pressure line field.
I have commercially made many braided pipes (both crimped and compression) and have worked in industrial computing (pneumatics) and now do hydraulic work on "cherry pickers", so IÕve also used my fair share of nylon ! I'll by-pass the performance argument, simply saying "size for size (internal) it should be the same". Now reliability is another matter.
BRAIDED HOSE; Hands down, I admit I love its looks. BUT I hate having to use the damn stuff ! 99.9% of problems are caused in the making of a hose, firstly you cut a length to size, without a diamond saw its practically impossible to cut cleanly, then you inspect the cuts, one tiny nick in the PTFE and you throw your carefully cut length away, then you fit the back nut and have to separate the braid from the PTFE, WITHOUT NICKING IT and insert the olive. You carefully insert the fitting into the pipe (do a few and your hands will be red raw !) and moly lube the threads, now tighten the back nut to the appropriate torque setting for the size of fitting / hose (the reason they make alloy spanners, it shouldn't be that bloody tight ). Hopefully you managed to do both ends without falling foul of any number of miniscule pit-falls and you get to pressure test the hose. Crimping isn't much different, just make sure the machine stays calibrated and the dies stay clean or you might as well foul about with a compression fitting because it'll fail the same. Now do you wonder if that shiny braided pipe was made by someone who cares ? Maybe it was made by someone on piece rate, checking every one in a hundred because the firm accepts a return rate of 10%, they don't care if the crimping has constricted the pipe 50%. If braided gets damaged it is VERY hard to tell, apart from a slightly uneven braid or maybe a slight flattening it looks fine, pressure test it and find out, better than that try holding a test pressure for a while, the number of hoses I see fail the extended test is unbelievable. Braided isn't tough, it isn't heat proof, metal is an extremely good conductor and just because it's used for brake pipes doesn't mean it doesn't expand, it just expands less than reinforced RUBBER, in comparison to nylon it expands a lot. Braided pipe is a PTFE core surrounded by a steel braid that is bonded physically to the core (the wire bites into the ptfe) the connector is simply a smooth tube that goes inside the PTFE, it's held in place against pressure by placing a tapered olive between the braid and PTFE core and using a nut with the same taper to wedge the braid under the nut while at the same time "crushing" the olive around the PTFE, clamping the PTFE onto the spigot (like a jubilee clip). In theory it works fine. BUT, if the PTFE core is nicked or damaged in any way during the cutting of the pipe or during the fitting of the olive or even while pushing the spigot into the pipe, that clamping force will split the PTFE. Overtightening the nut also forces the braid to dig to tightly into the olive and put an uneven stress on the PTFE, again splitting the PTFE. A slight mark or roughness on the spigot has the same effect. PTFE is a funny material, when clamped to these pressures it only takes a minute scratch or fault to propagate a split. Overtightening also has another effect, that spigot isn't all that strong, it is actually fairly easy to reduce its internal diameter by overtightening the nut, this leads to an uneven shape and again splits the pipe or causes a leak between PTFE and spigot. My advice would be for you to get an old braided brake pipe and take one of the fittings apart, seeing how it's actually made is frightening. In fact just go and look at a few braided pipes used in brakes and see how many appear to be damp near the fitting. That dampness is caused by leaking brake fluid, if you don't believe me have it pressure tested by a hydraulic company. A PROPERLY MADE BRAIDED PIPE IS VERY GOOD AND I HAVE NO HESITATIONS USING ONE FOR MY BRAKES. Unfortunately it's just so easy to un-properly make one ! The difference between one made too loose and leaking, and one too tight and leaking / damaged can be as little as half a turn of the nut. The only way you can tell braided is damaged is with a professional extended pressure test. I used to make, fit and sell braided, and I couldn't tell by looking whether it was going to pass, does that tell you something?
NYLON hose; Cut it with anything that doesn't crimp it, fit back nut and olive, lube thread and assemble. No it doesn't like damage but then it isn't easy to bloody damage ! It'll stand a fair amount of abrasion without rupturing, it takes impact damage very well, one thing it really doesn't like is kinking, when you kink it the area generally turns white (on black pipe) in fact any damage turns white !
NYLON is crap? Well then maybe you should tell the trucker behind you, because its nylon thatÕs stopping his TRUCK ! NYLON quick couplings are very bad for flow, and illegal in a braking system, doesn't exactly stop them being used though. I'm not suprised since they can take more than the burst pressure of the pipe ! FIRSTLY HIGHPOWER NYLON PIPE IS NOT THE SAME AS INDUSTRIAL PNEUMATICS PIPE, I've seen this mentioned a few times and people "in the know" will look in the catalogues for similar pipe and see "NYLON pressure pipe" 1000psi is verging on and in many cases over the BURST pressure for this pipe, this means total failure at any time. HIGHPOWER pipe has a "working pressure" of (I think) 1450psi, this means it can be expected to contain 1450psi indefinitely (for "ever"). Regarding heat, well generally it has the same resistance to heat as braided, but in my opinion "why the hell aren't you fitting a heat proof sleeve"?
Regarding running hoses through the car versus underneath. On a road car whatÕs the problem ? Even Johnny nova boy can run a cable for his amp through the car without causing a fire. On a competition car then maybe I'm thick, but since all rule makers tend to be a little on the slow side doesn't everyone install a channel down the car for fuel / brake / nitrous lines ? Twenty thousand on an engine but minimum on shell prep ?
Choosing the correct spark plugs
Spark plugs & nitrous performance
Quite often, a factory type wide-gap projected nose plug will produce a detonation condition after a few seconds of nitrous use. The detonation is not due to the heat range, it occurs because the ground strap of the spark plug becomes a glow plug instead of a spark plug. The ground strap is too long to dissipate the extra heat produced by the extra nitrous power. The correct solution is to replace the plugs with units that have shorter ground straps. By doing this, you will shorten the heat path from the ground strap to the plug base. It is also wise to go one or two heat ranges colder when using larger amounts of gas.
Keeping Nitrous Cool
VERY IMPORTANT!!! I can't stress enough on how important it is to keep the nitrous in liquid form as long as possible. This denser form is where maximum power comes from.
Tips:
1) Keep supply line from bottle/bottles to nitrous solenoid as short as possible. Excess length just promotes vaporization.
2) Route the nitrous supply line along the coolest possible path. Under car exhaust heat can start premature vaporization even when not next to the exhaust. A benefit of nylon routed inside if applicable.
3) Mount the solenoids in the coolest spot under the hood, while trying to maintain shortest output line length to injector/injectors. The back of the motor/firewall is the worst place to mount as all the engine heat is blown there when driving.
4) Protect lines from heat. See product section for recommended heat wrap.
Note: These are just tips. Sometimes line routing and solenoid mounting have to be done in a less than ideal location for a given application. Take some extra time to find the best possible placement for nitrous parts as you will only benefit.
Temperature/Pressure Relation
Bottle Temp (F) in Relation to Bottle Pressure (Psi)
10.857 lbs. of pressure per 1 degree of Fahrenheit is required to compress nitrous in a liquid form. This is why the chart below will not show temperature and pressure relationship in even numbers. Example: every 10 degrees does not equal an even 100 psi. increase or decrease.
Note: Since atmospheric air pressure is constantly changing, the numbers below are approximations. A pressure gauge will give more accurate readings.
Bottle Temp(left) vs. Bottle Pressure(right)
-30 / 67
-20 / 203
-10 / 240
0 / 283
10 / 335
20 / 387
32 / 460
40 / 520
50 / 590
60 / 675
70 / 760
80 / 865
97 / 1069
"Time" based progressive vs. "RPM" based
There are a number of reasons why "time based" systems are better than "rpm based".
1) Interfacing with "all" types of ignition systems is IMPOSSIBLE, the only effective and reliable way to achieve rpm link is to replace your ignition system with a unit made by the same company that make the rpm Nitrous system, which means you've have extra expense!!!
2) Most makes of ignition systems suffer some degree of misfires which can interfere with the delivery of Nitrous.
3) If you lose traction with an rpm based unit, the rpm's rise rapidly and the nitrous will be delivered at a higher level to make traction even worse.
4) When you back off to get traction, the second that you are at WOT again you can have to much "X" amount of power again based on a rapid increase to high rpm's. A time based will allow a reset to a much lower power level to resume traction.
5) The most important difference is that a time based system (with the right features like the Maximiser) can "simulate" rpm power deliver BUT an rpm unit can NOT "simulate" time based power delivery.
Whilst a combined rpm / time based system would allow even more features to be added (as will be the case in our "ultimate" unit), for the majority of applications the Maximiser (time based system), currently has more features than most people get the opportunity to benefit from.
www.1320straightliners.com
   
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted November 19, 2005 07:16 AM
this is all interesting information, I did not read it all but I will when I have more time.
where did this information all come from, is it from you? if so what is your background...
Mad Mike
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 21, 2005 09:22 PM
Sorry mike i have not got back to you. NO all this info is not me its from the people i deal with,I will be coming out soon with some new NOS systems that will make people think like-nitrogen boosting,progresive controller for each gear and does timing and more- solenoids that are adjustable from 25HP to 400 HP that are good for life. closed loop DRY system that has made 398HP on the DYNO.www.1320straightliners.com
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MadMike
Moderator
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Posts: 6579
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posted November 22, 2005 01:19 PM
Now I would be very interested in that.
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted November 23, 2005 08:42 AM
I have a set of the red and blue solinords for a wet system, nice parts. NOS needs some help with all those turbo's winning everything.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 25, 2005 01:31 PM
NOS SYSTEM
quote:
I have a set of the red and blue solinords for a wet system, nice parts. NOS needs some help with all those turbo's winning everything.
I have a low cost 40HP Dry kit that will make 50% more TQ using les NOS its trick and those solenoids are the best ones if hey are what i think they are. I realy want to get more people involved on this topic on this site. the turbo bikes rule the roost but i think with these new NOS products they will have a better chance with the turbos im sure you could run run 7.99 with a 80HP shot we have ran 8.17 @178 with a two stage controller and things were not perfect. We will change to a new system this year but we are not going to go over 80HP we are working on smooth power and we are almost there.If you guys no of any one thats going NOS let me have a shot at them before they do any thing.www.1320straightliners.com (SMOOTH IS FAST)
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted November 25, 2005 07:20 PM
I think the nitrous guys are watching.
I know i am.
Are you refering to the pulsinators (sp).?
what is low cost?
what does the 80hp kit cost.
you can pm me if you like.
What was involved to get 178 mph.
what size motor? zx12?
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted November 25, 2005 09:43 PM
Yes please PM people, no advertising pls...
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RDQUINN
Parking Attendant
Posts: 26
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posted November 25, 2005 10:09 PM
bike
Difinitely send me some mail also while I am still down.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 26, 2005 03:57 AM
id like to know how you get 50% more TQ using less nitrous.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 26, 2005 01:55 PM
40HP DRY KIT
quote:
id like to know how you get 50% more TQ using less nitrous.
if you have a dry shot kit where do you put the solenoid by the bottle or by the nozzle and why????? I need feed back to see what you guys know and why you think the way you do then i will show you some things and see what you think.
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted November 26, 2005 06:21 PM
is this a test...LOL..
most of the kits out now have the solenoid by the bottle, I would believe the only difference would be how quick the "hit" is? but then again I know very little about nitrous....
MM,
I have only heard not to put the solenoid under the gas tank.
so what is the difference in where you place it at?
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 26, 2005 07:03 PM
If you mount the solenoid by the bottle it turns the liquid NOS to gas and you loose your TQ if the solenoid is mounted on the nozzle the charge is more dense. You want the liquid NOS as close to the tip of the nozzle as possable. My kit has 3 times the flo rate in the bottle valve,from the valve this is all the same ID all the way to the Solenoid and the inside of my solenoid has only one 90 degree turn not three 90 degree turns and its a smooth ID and the nozzle is atached to the solenoid this is the way to get more TQ at the same HP you dont let your system turn to a gass so you can use a smaller jet and sence you are moving more of a dense liquid you will have more TQ. It will be a thick white cloud not a fog. Ran 8.80 at 166 on a GSXR 1000 stock with a bolt on can,strap,dog bones,swing arm ext- .
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted November 26, 2005 07:18 PM
Now that is very interesting! for sure... I am trying to think but i only have 1 90 degree at the point of the nozzle, but I have straight connections at all other joints... I should go and take my bike and dyno it both ways. now that would be very interesting for sure...but you have probably already done that.
what was the difference if you did....
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 27, 2005 06:59 AM
Id love to see your detailed charts or logs showing soleniod placement, jet size, HP/TQ results, and bottle weight.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted November 27, 2005 07:05 AM
"inside of my solenoid has only one 90 degree turn not three 90 degree turns and its a smooth ID"
I think he is refering to his new soleniod design.
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RQUINN
Expert Class
Posts: 228
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posted November 27, 2005 07:26 AM
Nitrous
Ok to those that are familiar with the Muzzy Dry Shot correct me if I am wrong but isn't it similiar to the way that 1320 is speaking of. From all the dynos that I have done on mines it has always had more torque than a friend of mine 02 ZX12R on the dyno on the nitrous he has the regular dry shot kit with 2 / 36 jets in. His bike made like 213hp @ 110lbs of torque and his silenoid is close to his bottle. I only have like one 90 degree angle the jet is right on the back of the silenoid. In the stock form meaning stock motor it made 220hp @ 120lbs of torque with 1 / 42 jet and I also have the FI Mixture Control Box. I could have done more but I only made 2 passes because I still at that time had the stock fuel pump in on my 01 ZX12R.
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RON QUINN
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 27, 2005 11:12 AM
TWO 36's and it only makes 213? DOOD something is WRONG.
Twin 40s mine made 290+.. twin 30s it made 265. Single #36 made 240
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 27, 2005 02:42 PM
Yea...no shit....my 42 single jet made 240+ as well.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 27, 2005 02:51 PM
I need some help on posting some photos. I will just E-MAIL MAD Mike the photos and have him post it then we can talk about the photos. I build Turbo Kits and Motors For Busa but i tell you What you guys are sharper than that bunch. I hate to dog out my boys but you guys came back with some good stuff, this is how you get things figured out.
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 27, 2005 03:07 PM
Also i use a differnt system for jeting a 80 jet is 40HP.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 27, 2005 03:09 PM
Well then how can you compare your jets to the ones in the muzzy kit and say yours is better and uses less nitrous.
Not adding up here chief.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted November 27, 2005 04:18 PM
yea just email me the pix's and I can post for you...
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turbo1320
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted November 27, 2005 04:31 PM
Oh i never said that my kit was better than muzzys kit that was some one doing there own testing.I was talking about my kit but then we went on to talk about the placement of the solenoid and why? I will get into my kit once we are on the same page on placement of the parts.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 27, 2005 04:38 PM
You are comparing your kit to the muzzy kit saying it makes more torque and uses less nitrous....
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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