CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted June 13, 2005 05:21 PM
 Edited By: CrotchRocket on 13 Jun 2005 18:29
Matt Sterbator...long lasting clutches!!!
This post is all for you!!!...And whoever wants to get over 100 passes from their clutch plates!!!
Here are all the OEM part #s for a long lasting clutch plate set up...
2002 zx12 clutch hub...13087-1183
2002 zx12 clutch springs...92144-1881
Friction plates...13088-1131, buy 12...
Steel plates...13089-1123, buy 11...
If you have a 2002 and newer just take out the 2 small friction plates and rings and add 2 13088-1131 friction plates in its place, so you dont break the small clutch fibers!!!
No need to modify any thing...The 2002 hub has 6 oil passages the size of a pen cap, which gets plenty of oil to the clutch plates...With the OEM basket the clutches have an awesome feel, but not a good idea since the OEM baskets blow up...So, when you put a Falicon billet basket in, it does restrict some flow to the clutch plates...But still gives me over 100 passes!!!...With the billet basket installed dont bother to tilt the 12 over on the right side to get oil onto the clutch plates...I use to do it but after a while I didnt notice it helping because the billet basket is solid and the oil does not get around the billet basket enough to make the clutch smoother!!!...Tilting the 12 only helps when you have the OEM clutch basket...
My last clutch I got 119 passes from it and was able to get more...But I noticed that after just over 520 passes on the Billet Basket it had 5 stress cracks, so I sent it back for a new one...They are made to crack not break...I recommend making only 3 back to back passes then letting it cool down!!!...After the DBZ-GR, I now have made 79 passes on the above mentioned clutch set up!!!
I use this set up...have great results with it...I am just passing on what I learned...If anyone does not believe that its the best set up for the 12, thats your opinion, you have that right...But have fun only getting 40 passes tops, with the other clutch set ups!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
   
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vozizm
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posted June 14, 2005 06:20 AM
how streetable is it?
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VOZ
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TurboBlew
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posted June 14, 2005 07:06 AM
How does the basket restrict oil flow? Its mounted on the same backing plate?
Just to add... gearing is an important consideration too. Crotch runs a 16 tooth countershaft which doesnt need as much slip as an 18 or 17.
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vozizm
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posted June 14, 2005 07:32 AM
CR
Ya post was right on time just got a call from a buddy with a 01 who's basket went bye bye... so if i understand correctly if he wants to get your same setup on is 01 he needs..
2002 zx12 clutch hub...13087-1183
2002 zx12 clutch springs...92144-1881
Friction plates...13088-1131, buy 12...
Steel plates...13089-1123, buy 11...
and a Falicon Billet Basket part number please?
also from whom will i buy said parts? Ron ayers for oem stuff.. i take it that everything besides Basket is Kaw OEM correct?..
what about a muzzy hub? instead of 02' hub?
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VOZ
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entropy
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posted June 14, 2005 07:51 AM
gotta be a lil careful in expecting CR's results to transfer to everyone else; especially fat guys with built motors.
CR has very finely tuned clutch/throttle control and he is concentrating on brackets not trying to do a new personal best every time he goes to the track (my interpretation).
When I do 1.6 60's, my clutch won't even discolor the steels; 1.4's are another story...
Another way to achieve clutch longevity is to keep blowing yr shit up (my speciality) 
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zx12girl
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posted June 14, 2005 08:52 AM
quote:
Another way to achieve clutch longevity is to keep blowing yr shit up (my speciality)
LOL....Now there is optimism for you!!!
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matt sterbator
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posted June 14, 2005 11:47 AM
Hard to see in this pic, but you can clearly see how oil CAN get to the back of the clutch pack with a stock basket, or how it could actually enter the pack when you tip the bike on it's side. Stock basket, broken
The billet basket is obviously solid and unless you can get oil up around the outer edge, I don't see oil getting in the pack from tipping it over. I think you'd uncover the pick up before you got it over far enough to do any good.
Last I checked, CR runs a 16/44 gearing which is actually TALLER gearing than the 17/48 I've been running (and fucking up clutches with). Krissten's stock bike, swb with 16/44 has had the same issues I've been having, almost at the same time.
I had 1.6 and 1.5 60fts at the Grudge, and my NEW plates were toasty and DRY when I pulled them back out. Quite a few hot spots as well. My clutch results seem to be the same whether I pull 1.6s or 1.4s
I realize I'm not a small person, and it's a big bore motor. However, I don't slip the clutch as much as some do. Like I said, I just want predictable, CONSISTANT performance out of the clutch. Longevity would ONLY be a bonus.
I'm seriously considering giving this a shot (can't hurt anymore than what I have). I'd like to see the difference between an 02 hub and the Muzzy. I have a Muzzy, so if someone could post pics of an 02 hub that'd be cool. 
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BROOKLYNNYZX12
Zone Head
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posted June 14, 2005 12:25 PM
Edited By: BROOKLYNNYZX12 on 14 Jun 2005 13:33
Voz,I have Crotch Rockets set up in my bike with a 17/46 gearing and nothing in the set up will affect the streetability,the key to long life is the Billet Basket,the '02 plates and springs,and the 02 hub not the Muzzy hub!!!Entropy,Rick and I go racing together quite a bit and I can attest that he lays into that bike pretty hard....He went in the 9:30's the day of the Grudge Race and I have been next to that bike when it has gone faster than that!!!TurboBlew,what is being stated is the Billet Basket is different looking when compared to a stock basket side by side.When they are next to each other you can see why tipping the bike to the right before a run makes more sense with a stock basket than doing that with a Billet one.The hub design is different,Muzzy modifies an 00/01 hub while the '02 and later hub is cast differently in a way that lets more oil pass through the hub.Some people mistake the terminology of basket/hub....put 2 hub side by side and you will easily see the difference.I have over 100 passes on my set up,17/46 gearing,Rick has over 500 passes on his set up and I outweigh Rick by 25lbs...i'm 205 suited up.I have gone 9:80's and soon I will be going to a 16/44 to stretch the wheelbase a little.It worked for me.
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osti33
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posted June 14, 2005 12:45 PM
quote:
I'm seriously considering giving this a shot (can't hurt anymore than what I have). I'd like to see the difference between an 02 hub and the Muzzy. I have a Muzzy, so if someone could post pics of an 02 hub that'd be cool.
sterbator, I have a stock 02 hub in the garage. I will take a picture of it for you and post it up.
I'm not at home tonight but I will do it tomorrow.
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted June 14, 2005 03:58 PM
Osti, take a pic of the 02 hub from the back and everyone will clearly see the 6 large oil passage holes...
By the way, my 12 is 60" with 16-47 gearing since April 2005...My fastest 60' has been a 1.51...The last clutch I took out had 119 passes and the steels were not blue at all, just browned on the hot spots!!!...A big part of the longevity is the OEM 1881 clutch springs, they give the right amount of pressure on the clutch stack height, which prevents wheelies on a stock and 60" wheelbase...Also, I use RedLine 10-40 synthetic oil...
Matt, cant hurt to try this setup and if your getting clutch slippage, then add the heavier springs...But I would go with the ZX6 clutch springs, they are about the same firmness as the 1881 springs but are longer!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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vozizm
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posted June 14, 2005 06:37 PM
i have 6 .zx-6 springs installed..
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vozizm
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posted June 14, 2005 06:48 PM
question
Fallicon list these 2 for the 12 ..i was unaware of any difference from 03 and up?
KAW ZX12 EARLY BILLET 750-231 439.00
KAW ZX12 LATE 03+ BILLET 750-231L 439.00
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TurboBlew
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posted June 14, 2005 11:13 PM
02 and newer have different spring arrangements on the backing plate.
Ive swapped them between A and B bikes... no difference I could detect.
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osti33
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posted June 15, 2005 10:15 AM
Edited By: osti33 on 15 Jun 2005 11:15
As promised here is the picture of an 02 stock hub. This is from the back side.
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vozizm
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posted June 15, 2005 10:25 AM
pic of the 00-01?
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matt sterbator
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posted June 15, 2005 11:50 AM
quote:
pic of the 00-01?
Batteries in my camera are fuckered up.
Notice the squarish holes machined to the left and above the bolt holes for the clutch spring bolts. The '00 doesn't have those (atleast the two '00 stock hubs I have sitting here don't).
Thanks Ryan, you da man
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osti33
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posted June 15, 2005 12:26 PM
No problem.
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vozizm
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posted June 15, 2005 01:32 PM
My Bud just ordered these items...
2002 zx12 clutch hub...13087-1183
2002 zx12 clutch springs...92144-1881
Friction plates...13088-1131, buy 12...
Steel plates...13089-1123, buy 11...
from ron ayers
and
BILLET Basket... 750-231
from Falicon
lets see how it all goes together...
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted June 15, 2005 03:31 PM
That is what the 02, 03,04,05 hubs look like now...Are those oil passage holes big or what
There's part of your clutch longevity boys and girls 
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ninja12
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posted June 15, 2005 11:44 PM
I don't see how oil would get to the hub.
and even if it did I don't see how that gets oil to the fibers which are on the outside of the hub. The inside of the hub is solid unless it drilled like the muzzy setup.
The inside of the basket is pretty dry also without some mods to the puller or basket bearing.
Not saying it don't work, just can't see how.
What am i missing?
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matt sterbator
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posted June 16, 2005 02:34 AM
Just from looking at that pic, it looks like the holes are almost directly behind the inner most fiber, which IME... is the fiber and steel that take the most abuse by far. The question I have is how would the oil get up in those holes.
The drilled Muzzy set up doesn't seem to work, at all.
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted June 16, 2005 05:20 AM
It works similar to the hollow puller shaft...Since the oil comes from the gear area working its way to the last clutch plate installed!!!...It does work though!!!
It's just too bad that Falicon cant make a clutch basket out of a super strong metal that wont break or crack, like titanium to look exactly like the OEM clutch basket...Then we will get excellent clutch performance!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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NINJA12
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posted June 16, 2005 07:08 AM
Matt, It looks like the hole go to the inside of the hub, probably can't put holes into the actual
fiber surface area.
The muzzy set works better with the the flat side puller.
The problem is there has to be oil INSIDE the hub . The drilled bushing helps
but not enough.
Still not perfected but i do have some oil on the fibers now.
CR, are you saying the the oil is squeezing into the BASKET thru the bushing, or the puller
output shaft? IF it's coming from the output shaft it's already inside the hub and the holes in the back will let it into the basket area. Right?
The problem i'm seeing is there is not enough oil inside the basket and hub area.
IF you can get the oil into the clutch then you can direct it to the fibers with these different
drilled parts.
I've heard the 2002 up basket had a different backing plate that allows more oil inside the clutch, but i have not seem it to understand what changed.
Guess i should just buy one, but i'd like to understand why it work.
Here is an idea to kick around.
How about drill a hole in the output shaft that the pusher goes into.
Between the end of the puller and the nut that holds everthing together if there's room.
This has oil any time the engine is running and can be hole size metered and with
holes in the hub like the muzzy setup we would have a wet clutch all the time.
Not just when the clutch is pulled.
Thought?
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted June 16, 2005 07:27 AM
The only change I see between the 2000/01 hub, to the 2001/03/04/05 hub are the 6 large holes shown above...
I too have asked how and why it makes a difference and how Kawasaki came up with that to partially fix the oil lube problem to the clutches and if there is anything more that can be done...The answer I got was only Kawasaki knows, have fun trying to get the answer!!!
So, I did what most people dont want to do, is take some elses word for it...It worked though...Sometimes you dont get the answers you need to believe, just believe in what was done!!!... Im very sure Kawasaki knows what they're doing since they did make the ZX12!!!
I dont recommend doing the other mods of shaving and drilling, it weakens the part...If they were good then Kawasaki would have done it for us!!!
Comeon guys stop resisiting and try it, so we can stop talking about this!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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NINJA12
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posted June 16, 2005 11:08 AM
I'm going to try it.
It's too cheap not to.
I'm probably still going to mod it to oil from the inside of the hub also.
It would be great to get a Muzzy 02 hub.
Too many years in IT, forces me to try to understand the "how and why" in everything.
"Comeon guys stop resisiting and try it, so we can stop talking about this!!! "
If this works we will be talking about this on every board around
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