NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 28, 2005 11:05 AM
Mr Hills Nitrous Setup?
No update in a while.
How are things going?
  
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted March 28, 2005 02:56 PM
More or Less, I am finished but have not had time to test it.
The Bypass Fuel Regulator installed.
The unit I had to make to control Fuel Injection Pressure and to supply the NOS
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted March 29, 2005 05:03 AM
reinventing the wheel
:P
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VincentHill
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posted March 29, 2005 06:28 AM
YES, "But I did it My Way" 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted March 29, 2005 07:16 PM
Your way can be duplicated... but not imitated....lol
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX-12_NITROUS/index.html
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted March 30, 2005 10:07 AM
quote:
Your way can be duplicated... but not imitated....lol
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX-12_NITROUS/index.html
The pressure regulator on the Muzzy system is NOT a Bypass Regulator!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 30, 2005 01:14 PM
Mr Hill, Class Time Again!
Why is this important?
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted March 30, 2005 01:30 PM
quote:
Mr Hill, Class Time Again!
Why is this important?
simply because that deadhead style of regulator is not made to take the full 40-50 PSI our FI pumps put out. The rating on that regulator (this is directly from NOS's tech guys) is 15 psi. Obviously these regulators are stronger than the 15 PSI rating, but how accurate are they when they are being hit with 3x the pressure AND how long will it last with that amount of pressure...before the diapragm inside ruptures and it spews fuel into the plennum area.....
I have only found two regulators that are capable of dropping 50 psi down to 5-7 in one step safely...and they are both bypass regulators (meaning they have to have a return line to operate).
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted March 30, 2005 04:34 PM
Canada is 50% right (He is 100% correct in what he said but there is a second reason)
Fluid already in motion when diverted will continue in motion and speed. Fluid that is static must first accelerate before it reaches its max speed.
In other words, the Lean Spike experienced by most wet systems because the NOS Moves a lot faster than the lower pressure Fuel is greatly lessened. This is a very good thing when you are spraying between a 150 to 200 shot of NOS 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted March 31, 2005 07:26 PM
 Edited By: rac4it on 31 Mar 2005 19:28
Never heard of that happening on any Muzzys Stealth setup? Or anyone having that happen. The more complicated the system becomes the more unreliable it becomes. Sometimes the simple answer actually IS the best answer. Just about every component could be re-evaluated and re-engineered 100 different ways, but WHY, go with what works for the lowest common denominator of cost, reliability, and performance.
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted March 31, 2005 07:58 PM
the only concern I had with the NOS regulator is that it is not made to handle the pressure our FI systems put out. If I could have found a deadhead regulator that would safely and reliably drop the pressure from 40-50 psi to 5-7 I would have been happy.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted April 01, 2005 07:49 AM
quote:
the only concern I had with the NOS regulator is that it is not made to handle the pressure our FI systems put out. If I could have found a deadhead regulator that would safely and reliably drop the pressure from 40-50 psi to 5-7 I would have been happy.
Bergie, If you know anything about me, you know that I cannot stop in the middle of anything or leave any question unanswered. I personally have called and written "EVERY" Regulator manufacture in the US and not found ONE (1) that had a regulator that they guaranteed would handle 50 PSI down to 4 or 5 PSI Safely for any period of time. Several of them had regulators that "Looked" exactly like the one used in the Muzzy system. Seeing that the system in inside the airbox, if the Regulator let go, it would flood the engine and maybe give it Hydraulic lock or possibly allow the excess fuel to pour all over a hot engine.
The point here is maybe Muzzy had a special regulator made for this system, but the point is, None of us can get one that will handle the pressure as it sits now!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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01zx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 338
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posted April 03, 2005 07:25 PM
Lean Spike
Mr Hill, I totally agree with everything youre talking about and noticed last year alo of the same problems with mine on the track and on the dyno. The lean spike can somtimes be as much as 17:1 in my situation. I havent installed a new regulator as of yet but one thing I did that has helped alot is not to purge the Nitrous while im in the lights. Doesnt seem to really have much of an affect on et either 
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Lovett Racing/Pedigo Performance
8.40 @170
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted April 04, 2005 07:03 AM
17:1 that is about the exact same lean spike I "Had". Purging should "Increase" the spike because it get the NOS out sooner yet. I would thing that Not Purging would allow the Fuel to get there with the NOS
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted April 04, 2005 09:08 AM
So what do the 02-05 guys do? We dont have a byepass system?
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted April 04, 2005 12:45 PM
quote:
So what do the 02-05 guys do? We dont have a byepass system?
Are you saying that there is only "1" Line coming from your fuel tanK?? (There one from the tank but there is no return line to the tank from the Fuel Injection)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted April 04, 2005 01:55 PM
quote:
Are you saying that there is only "1" Line coming from your fuel tanK?? (There one from the tank but there is no return line to the tank from the Fuel Injection)
Yep. That is indeed the case.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted April 04, 2005 03:03 PM
how are you regulating the fuel pressure to the TB's
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted April 04, 2005 03:34 PM
Some newer cars have only 1 fuel line as well. Specifically Ford if I remember correctly. This was done because of fuel being heated too much due to excessive circulation. These systems must use some kind of rising rate deadhead regulator.
The problem with teeing into the pressure feed lineon either model of bike with a bypass regulator is that the whole fuel system will drop to the pressure set at the regulator.....so if the regulator is set to 5 psi that is what the injectors will see...and the bike will not run. If this is done on the return side on the "A" model bikes, it is no big deal since the pressure has already been stepped down to a more reasonable pressure as a result of the regulator only returning the pressure beyond its' internal settings, so the cheap NOS regulator should survive no problem. One thing I would love to know is the pressure required to unseat the check ball in the return fitting in the tank. If it is more than 8 psi, the return line is perfect for teeing into for the fuel feed to the N2O system. I will be checking this in the next few weeks and will report back on it.
On the newer bikes, it would be safest to tee into the pressure line, install a deadhead regulator to drop the pressure to 15 PSI and then that NOS regulator to drop the pressure to 5-7psi. That is stupidly complicated way to do it, but running 40-50 PSI to a regulator that is spec'd to handle 15 is chancey for sure.
Here is an interesting question: If the Muzzy pump is installed in an A model bike, does the pressure in the feed side of the system go up? Keep in mind this is a return system and unless the regulator is overwhelmed by volume, this should not happen. I can see that the pressure would go up for the B model bikes, since they can't return the excess fuel and therefore need to be remapped, but what about the A's??? I have one bike with the muzzy pump, but it is a 1270, so the Mapping is already different.....
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted April 04, 2005 03:45 PM
The 02-05 have the regulator in side the fuel tank. Right now I have the red NOS regulator like the one muzzy uses on the stealth nos system mounted with a T in the fuel line.
When I called Muzzy to see about a HI flow pump for an 02-05 I was told that they did not have one.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted April 04, 2005 04:05 PM
quote:
The 02-05 have the regulator in side the fuel tank. Right now I have the red NOS regulator like the one muzzy uses on the stealth nos system mounted with a T in the fuel line.
When I called Muzzy to see about a HI flow pump for an 02-05 I was told that they did not have one.
Cool...thanks for the heads up on all of that stuff.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted April 04, 2005 05:15 PM
Just when you thing you know something, then you learn more.
Thinking for a minute with this system, it would not work on the 02 or above. Nothing is ever simple.
If I had an 02 or above, I would then use the External Fuel Pump with this same regulator and add to openings in the tank. One out and one back in like some people are doing with their 00 and 01 already
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted April 04, 2005 06:36 PM
Yes, you could add a nipple on the base plate next to the fuel line under the tank and use the NOS fuel pump with no regulator.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted April 05, 2005 09:17 AM
Edited By: NINJA12 on 5 Apr 2005 10:22
IF you have a A model, how reliable is the fuel supply AFTER the regulator on the TB,
assuming it is unmodified?
VH you drilled you regulator right? How do you regulate the Fuel pressure to the TB now?
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted April 05, 2005 10:30 AM
quote:
IF you have a A model, how reliable is the fuel supply AFTER the regulator on the TB,
assuming it is unmodified?
VH you drilled you regulator right? How do you regulate the Fuel pressure to the TB now?
This is part of the testing I will be getting to in the next little while. Providing the check valve in the tank has a seat pressure greater than the 5-7 psi required by the N2O system AND there is sufficient volume flowing (the muzzy pump will apparently flow enough fuel for 700 HP so there should be a fair amount getting returned to the tank), the return side should work just fine.
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