entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted August 16, 2004 04:45 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 16 Aug 2004 06:53
LM-1 AF & data logger - WAY COOL!!!!!!
1st of all BIG thumbs up to Doug at Spencer Cycle; he spent a 1/2 hr on the phone explaining the ins-n'-outs of AF monitoring and data recording, how the LM-1 compares with the Dynojet etc; then he got the LM-1 to me in time to install on Fri/Sat.
YOU DA MAN, DOUG!!!! 
1. the install is a tit, even for a hamma-mechanic like me. I velcro-ed the box on the Lh ramair cover, put the rpm module in the trunk. You need to have the box accessible to hit the record button, and it fits up front just fine.
2. I yanked my exhaust and had the bung welded on, no problem-o other than a year ago I used high temp copper rtv to seal the mid pipe to the collector and it will take a jack hammer to separate them now. So I pulled the whole system. No biggie, it was about time to change my antifreeze anyway, what with winter coming and all... 
3. Programming the rpm module was giving me fits, I thought it wasn't working, but it sure recorded fine at the track last night. It needs a little tweak to raise the rpm recording ceiling but if i'd RTFM even i can prolly figure it out.
4. at the track, recording is as easy as warming up the AF sensor, hit the record button when staging. All I am logging now is AF and rpm, with TPS coming soon.
5. I made 4 passes but only got logs on 2 because i dumb-assed the other 2; don't ask...
6. Even with only 2 passes logged there is a world of info, here's just a sample:
- 1st pass I thought i was staging at 5000 and it actually was 4500, next log showed me staging at 5200.
- AF was 13.5:1 or so on the 1st pass, went up 2 bars on hi, 1 bar on mid, and gained 1 mph on the big end on the next pass. woo-hoo!!!
I have only scratched the surface on using this capability but the LM-1 is the best $450 I have spent on my heap in a long time!!!
Kudos to Doug!!!!!
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted August 16, 2004 07:24 AM
Very interesting - data collection is cool. Wish I could swing a whole datalogger, but this sounds tempting. Can it collect extra channels? EGT? -Dean
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 16, 2004 08:45 AM
Edited By: entropy on 16 Aug 2004 09:53
Dean,
for $450 you get wide band AF (incl the sensor), and the capability of recording 5 other channels.
In the near term, in addition to the AF, I'm only planning on logging rpm & TPS, but some others would be interesting, eh? Fuel pressure? Airbox pressure? EGT? oil pressure? mph? boost? solenoid action on dope?
For top-end folk it would be interesting to monitor front and rear wheel mph separately to quantatively assess slippage at speed.
I am a 110% neophyte at this, and readily admit my bike is akin to a kinetic science fair project for me, so it's all cool!!!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted August 16, 2004 09:12 AM
Sounds like a very cool toy....if the MMS doesnt give me the ability to do these things...ill certainly buy one!
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted August 16, 2004 09:16 AM
Man I really really want one of those! Doug you have one sold, I just have to knock over a bank real quick!!! LOL..
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 16, 2004 09:22 AM
quote:
Sounds like a very cool toy....if the MMS doesnt give me the ability to do these things...ill certainly buy one!
I betcha the MMS will give all that the LM-1 will give and many, many other capabilities; I looked at the MMS and decided is was WAY over the top for me.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted August 16, 2004 09:51 AM
I am hoping so...already have the MMS...so waiting to see what itll do for me before I drop another 400 on another toy
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spencercyclecom
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posted August 16, 2004 05:34 PM
Very interesting - data collection is cool. Wish I could swing a whole datalogger, but this sounds tempting. Can it collect extra channels? EGT? -Dean
Yes you can log EGTs. There will soon be another aux. box that will allow 6 more items to be data logged. It will be an optional accesories. Dont know ETA yet.
TCIS,
The MMS has a data logger built into it...BUT is not a graphical data logger. By this I mean you cannot view the stats on a graph like Carl can. All you will have is a line chart....sorta like a spread sheet. I have one on my Zx12R and I also have this LM-1.
Mad Mike,
You will love this thing....it is cool as hell.
THANKS CARL for the good review....I KNEW you would like it.
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted August 22, 2004 06:26 PM
So what was better about th LM-1 comprard to the dynojet wideband?
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted August 22, 2004 06:59 PM
I doubt there is a difference in accuracy...however whats "better" is that you can see what your a/f is accurately on the street..vs in a dyno room.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted August 22, 2004 08:51 PM
The DynoJet WideBand will only give you A/F...no other optional inputs...yet...
Karl...
The Innovative page says the RPM reads to 10,230rpm...for cars I guess...
Haven't read the instructions yet so I don't know if there is a way or option around this???
DOUG???
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 23, 2004 12:01 AM
KC,
there is definitely a way around it, tiny downside (and its a VERY small downside) is that the rpm shows up as 1/2 of actual but it'll read to 20,460, ie what is recorded and graphed is 1/2 of actual, eg actual 11600rpm reads as 5800.
are you installing one????
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bossman12r
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posted August 23, 2004 09:04 AM
Entropy I see your A/F was 13.5 at WOT what was it on the dyno?
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted August 23, 2004 09:09 AM
quote:
Entropy I see your A/F was 13.5 at WOT what was it on the dyno?
I told you where to set yours now quit asking
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted August 23, 2004 09:13 AM
Just wanted to see how much air was getting into the motor when it was moving 
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted August 23, 2004 03:22 PM
quote:
quote:
Entropy I see your A/F was 13.5 at WOT what was it on the dyno?
I told you where to set yours now quit asking
funny.
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 23, 2004 11:00 PM
Kevin,
YES as Carl stated...it is adjustable to what you need.
BOSSMAN12R.......
This allows datalogging....the dynojet does not. Allows realtime playback. This also... well....it simply is better. Read the F&Q and then go read the dynojet's. Youa re getting a datalogger PLUS a 5 wire 02 sensor... A/F meter.
This thing does just about everything my $2800.00 datalogger will do.
Kevin,
If Ryan or you need some of these we keep them instock and accesories
Below is the newest thing coming out for the LM-1 it will allow you to datalog 6 aditional items.
They just sent us a email the other day......
The LMA-3, also known as the AuxBox, is released from engineering. This device attaches to the auxiliary input of the LM-1 and allows a user to log and analyze 5 critical engine metrics in addition to the air/fuel ratio native on the LM-1. The AuxBox makes the LM-1 into a complete tuning kit, allowing the user to capture, view, and analyze data on all 6 channels that the LM-1 can log internally. Correlating AFR, RPM, MAP, and CHT, for example, is essential when tuning piggy-back fuel controllers, ECU programmers, aftermarket ECUs, or racing carburetors.
The 5 internal sensors are intended for capturing Manifold Air Pressure (MAP or Boost), Cylinder Head Temperature (CHT) or Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT), RPM conversion (from a tach signal or inductive clamp), Acceleration, and Injector Duty Cycle (or Dwell). The internal MAP sensor is a 3-bar absolute pressure sensor, providing accurate data up to 44.1 PSIA. The temperature measurement circuit features a K-type thermocouple. The internal accelerometer features 2 axis measurements for a variety of mounting options.
Another key application of the AuxBox is road testing. Even a dyno doesn't provide as much real data as road testing. Factors like air flow, side force, and load vary significantly on a real road. With an AuxBox, a user can log 6 channels, in multiple sessions, for up to 44 minutes. Then, back at the garage, simply connect the LM-1 to you PC and view all of you log data. Use LogWorks to view fuel mapping, perform statistical analysis, overlay graphs, and playback a log on the virtual gauges. You can also view realtime data on LogWorks' gauges if you want to take your laptop on the road.
The AuxBox also includes 5 external inputs for connecting external sensors in lieu of the internal sensors. This allows users to log data from external sensors like TPS or suspension data. Each input can also be configured with additional thermocouples, allowing multiple EGT channels.
The AuxBox ships with mounting hardware, a 6' thermocouple wire, the LM-1 connecting cable, and the user manual. Retail. Price is $249.
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 23, 2004 11:03 PM
Frequently Asked Questions
Q: Does the LM-1 really ship with a wideband O2 sensor?
A: Yes, it ships with the Bosch LSU-4.2 wideband, 5 wire oxygen sensor. The sensor cable is 10 ft. long. The LM-1 igrnores the calibration resistor present in some sensors, but instead calibrates digitally, and with better results.
Q: What is the target lambda reading for my vehicle's engine?
A: It depends. There are many factors that can affect the air/fuel ratio for your vehicle. Particularly at idle, many engines will show a lean lambda (lambda of greater than 1) when this is perfectly OK. For example diesel engines run this way. Other engines, at low speed experience "valve overlap" where the intake valves are opening while the exhaust valves are closing. This will cause oxygen to "leak" into the exhaust, raising the observed lambda. However high lambda values can also signal that the oxygen sensor is not fully immersed in the exhaust gases. For example, we have seen lambda measurements on motorcycles yield false lean readings due to the low exhaust pressure. By covering the exhaust, and eliminating outside oxygen from crossing the sensor, accurate lambda readings were gathered. In general, however, optimum horsepower is achieved between 0.85 and 0.90 lambda (12.45 AFR to 13.2 AFR using regular gasoline).
Q: Does your meter have an analog output?
A: Yes it does. It has two analog outputs usable for a maximum range of 0.5 to 1.523 Lambda (7.35 to 22.39 AFR). The resolution for the outputs is 10 bits 0-5 Volt (0.00489V steps). The Output Voltage over Lambda curves for each output are freely and independently programmable with the included software. See the LM-1 Manual in the support section of our web-site in section 9.6 'Programming the analog outputs' for information on how to program the outputs. See section 11.1 on how to connect an analog output of the LM-1 to simulate a narrow band sensor. Section A.1 shows the pinout and type of the output connector. As shipped, one output simulates a typical narrow band oxygen sensor, the other one is programmed to show AFR/10 for gasoline on a digital voltmeter (for example AFR of 14.7 outputs 1.47V). These analog outputs, once programmed, can be used to drive a closed-loop EMS, to feed a data logging system, or to drive an external display. Very careful attention has to be paid to grounding. It will not work reliably through the cigarette lighter. Optimally use the same ground that the data logger or ECU uses.
Q: How can you make it so cost-effectively?
A: Our design is 100% digital, allowing us to drastically reduce the amount of tight-tolerance (expensive) components.
Q: Can the analog output of the LM-1 provide the voltage straight from the sensor for the fuel injection computer?
A: The LM-1 can provide a wide-band AFR output, but it can't completely simulate connection to a wideband sensor (i.e. if your ECU tries to control the heater or the pump cell, it won't work).
Q: Does the LM-1 work with turbo-charged engines?
A: Yes.
The net of all this is that the sensor should be installed as close to the cat as possible, and (in non-cat applications) at least 12" away from the end of the exhaust.
Q: I have a custom fuel injection system in my vehicle, open loop. It has a dash mount for adjusting low and high-end richness. Could I use your LS-1 modular Subsystem to keep my air/fuel ratio correct at all times?
A: Yes, but the LS-1 is currently only available to OEM customers. You'll probably want to buy the LM-1 (shipping Q3), or, better yet, the LM-1X (planned for shipment Q3'04) for your application. The LM-1X has to be integrated correctly with the fuel injection system to keep the air fuel ratio correct at all times. This is more a function of the fuel injection system than of the LM-1X. The LM-1X is a controller for the Lambda Sensor that puts out a voltage proportional to Lambda or AFR. It is the job of the EFI then to regulate AFR according to its built-in maps, using the lambda data from the LM-1X.
Q: Does the LM-1 work with Diesel engines?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the LM-1 warranty like?
A: 6 months guarantee against workmanship defects on LM-1. Customer ships to factory, we replace or repair, and we pay shipping back to customer. Sensors are NOT covered (there are too many things folks can do to damage). Warranty is void if unit is used improperly (as described in manual). We 100% stand behind everything we make.
Q: I'd like to see the manual for the LM-1 if possible.
A. http://innovatemotorsports.com/support.php
Q: Have you tested the accuracy of your WB against other high end units? What were the results?
A: So far, we've tested the LM-1 against certified, precision-mixed gasses - an absolute reference. We will probably be doing some testing vs. other meters, but we're more interested in objective accuracy.
Q: What is the accuracy of the LM-1?
A: +/- 0.1 AFR
Q: Can the LM-1 Be used with my current dtalogger?
A: Yes the LM-1 can be configured to work with many data-loggers that accept data input.
Q: Can the LM-1 Be used on different vehicles?
A: Yes. The LM-1 is supplied with a O2 bung and Plug. The unit is mobile and can be installed on different vehicles as long as that vehicle has a O2 sensor bung installed.
Q: How heavy is the LM-1?
A: 11.6 ounces
Q: What size is the LM-1?
A: 7x4x1.5
Q: How much are the replacement O2 Sensors?
A: $59.00 The wide band O2 sensor is available at any automotive parts dealer and the kit is supplied with correct replacement part numbers and Brands.
Q: What can I data-log?
A: Just about anything you want. The most common uses are MAF,RPM,TPS,CHT,IAT,MAP,Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, NOS pressure...ect. The system works from 0-5v refrence signals as long as you know the refrence points....the software can be fully customize to that sensor.
Q: Does the LM-1 have an accelerometer?
A: Yes it can be set up to measure - or + G Forces. This is handy for consistent logging of launches.
Q: Does the LM-1 Have a Playback Mode?
A: YES. It will playback the recored session in real time. You will be able to see what was going on during the run.
Q: Can logged sessios be overlayed and compared?
A: Yes.
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 23, 2004 11:05 PM
LM-1: Digital Air/Fuel Ratio Meter
Tuning an engine for maximum power previously required long trial-and-error sessions on a dynamometer. With the LM-1, precise AFR measurement allows the user to correctly adjust many variables- including carburetor jetting, fuel injection, turbo fuel curves, etc.- without long and expensive dyno sessions. The meter's digital signal processing technology provides data on exactly how rich or lean an engine is running at any load. The LM-1s self-calibrating circuitry also compensates for changes in temperature, altitude, and sensor condition.
The LM-1 also serves as a self-contained, multi input, DATA-LOGGING system. The LM-1 can sample and store air/fuel ratio, and up to 5 additional inputs such as RPM,TPS,Temp,Boost,MAP, ect using the optional RPM converter. The LM-1 easily intergrates with aftermarket engine management systems and or data-loggers using 0-5v inputs.
The instrument can sample and store the air-fuel-ratio and the other sensor data internally in operation for later analysis on a personal computer. The LM-1 can store up to 44 minutes. The data can be downloaded to a personal computer using a standard serial port and viewed/analyzed by the included software or any standard spreadsheet program.
The standard LM-1 includes a Bosch wide-band oxygen sensor and cable, cigarette-lighter adapter, serial cable for PC connection, 9V battery, exhaust bung and plug, CD and manual. The LM-1 ships with a Bosch sensor, however, it can also function with other wide-band sensors, including Honda/NTK and VW sensors.
Available accessories include auxiliary input cables, alligator-clip power cable, analog gauge, analog output cable, and Aux. input expander. Additional accessories include a dash-mountable display and AC adapter.
The LM-1 sells for $349, including the oxygen sensor (Bosch LSU4.2), 10' sensor cable, 10' power cable, serial PC cable, and software..
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 23, 2004 11:08 PM
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Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 23, 2004 11:12 PM
Looks more complicated than it is....this is very easy software to use and understand....screenshots dont do this justice.
The people that have purchased from us are "in the know" now. I always hear..." how in the world did i ever get by without this"
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 23, 2004 11:18 PM
Edited By: spencercyclecom on 24 Aug 2004 00:20
Carl,
Here is a teaser for you...to get that ole nogging working some more. As I said ....use your imagination in learning to logg sensors.
Well here goes.....
You can calculate hp and fuel consumption from injector duty cycle directly using formulas and can even develop rough hp and torque curves using the DUTY readout from your LM-1...that you can easily datalog!
NOW when you have this info....you now can tell how much power you were making on your best runs AND on what part of the track!! Roughly....BUT this info can be very useful during times.
what cha think....the possibilities are endless
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted August 24, 2004 07:50 AM
Edited By: NINJA12 on 24 Aug 2004 08:53
What extras are needed to produce the " AFR chart over RPM/Throttle"?
What is the Total cost?
Thanks
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 24, 2004 01:22 PM
$448.00 gets THE LM-1 AND THE OPTIONAL RPM CONVERTER.
The basic LM-1 is $349.00 and the RPM converter is $99.00
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted August 24, 2004 01:24 PM
using the rpm converter will also allow yout ot log TPS,MAP,Water Temp....ect.. you can log 4 other items and graph them as well.
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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