your car is slow
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posted June 06, 2004 10:18 PM
question on HD valve springs
Is there a variety? or we only have one option?
Who sellsem? Mike?
Anything else necessary to install them? new shims? etc?
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ninja12
Needs a job
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posted June 07, 2004 06:45 AM
schnitz, ape, muzzy, lee .
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MadMike
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posted June 07, 2004 07:06 AM
Vince know's all of the differences in know more about the kibblewhites.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted June 07, 2004 07:13 AM
muzzy has HD valve springs? interesting.
How many of these are simply the same spring...rebranded by vendor?
Yo VINNY! Talk to me goose!
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 07, 2004 08:02 AM
its gonna be hard to figure this info out without getting a valve spring tester and these springs in front of someone. I have used coby's valvesprings a few times, I forget what they were for, but I had to shim them also, shims come with them. Havent used muzzys or APEs yet. I always use carpenters in all the busas I build.
Nick
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ninja12
Needs a job
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posted June 07, 2004 08:42 AM
"muzzy has HD valve springs? interesting."
The recommend them with their cams.
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX-12_Cams/index.html
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Ra12r
Zone Head
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posted June 07, 2004 08:48 AM
Hey here is a though......We have HD springs....Look at how Agressive our cams are already. 40lbs of seat pressure currently. What more does your valves require to follow the profile?! They DONT bind until .600 lift. You can only buy cams up to .405 lift. That lift is ONLY .047 more than factory intake. The duration is basically the same. Please explain why we need more pressure?
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 07, 2004 08:58 AM
Esp when you run nitrous or boost pressure, the additional pressure is needed. Ive seen stock motors spit a shim from hitting the limiter on a shift. Esp nitrous motors with airshifters, they love to spit those bitches out and bang up valves. There is a BIG difference between where a spring is going to bind and when it will float....
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 07, 2004 09:03 AM
and ONLY .047? Thats alot more lift. Almost 50 thou. We see HP differences from switching from 385s-405s-425s or whatever. We are dealing with things on a smaller scale than with cars. Hell, you still add 50 thousanths lift to a cam and your moving the valve that much further, in the same amount of time. Usually with cars the additional pressure is required for the duration of the cam itself, but these bikes are running durations at .050 lift that cars could only imagine to idle like these bikes....
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VincentHill
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posted June 07, 2004 09:43 AM
Brian, I put in APE Springs on the exhaust valve side! That is the part that seems to have the most problems. The springs are progressive, but no where near as progressive as the stock. They also use a SHim under the spring seat that you will need to remove the seal. If you look at the pictures I posted (At least the ones that still exist) I think one shows the Sears Cotter pin remover that I have flattened on one side to remove the seals and then placing the seal on the USD Valve and pushing it back on the stem! Beacuse the progression is a lot less, you can use bigger valve lift and no coil bind. Also the stock inner springs were a lot shorter than the outter springs. I think these double the seat pressure!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 07, 2004 10:25 AM
so you are using stockers on the intake and apes on the exhaust?
Any logic behind that you wanna share? 
This would be for a polished/ported head for the turbo project...so i figured id replace them all while I was at it.
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VincentHill
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posted June 07, 2004 11:58 AM
I would also replace all of the springs. The reason I did "NOT" replace the intake springs, is that they are a little stronger than the exhaust and that since I will not be using an Airshifter, I felt that there was little chance of having a problem to begin with.
I only did this on the exhaust to keep the large explosions from lifting the exhaust valve from the seat (Which is the only one I have ever seen damaged.
I also did not want to add anymore mechanical losses more than necessary. It takes more power away from the engine to lift the valves when HD Springs are used, so I used only the ones I felt were necessary!
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 07, 2004 12:00 PM
 Edited By: your car is slow on 7 Jun 2004 13:02
I feel ya boss.
thanks for the info!
BTW..what is the avg cost on these springs?
Wonder how well that muzzy race cam setup would run 
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 07, 2004 12:18 PM
you dont need cams YCIS. You just need coby or muzzy springs and retainers. Forced induction works wonders.....dont bleed off your precious cylinder pressure with race cams.....
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 07, 2004 12:20 PM
this would be all for much later down the road.
Project will still go together at first with a completely stock motor.
However knowing me...and having the ability to adjust boost on the fly....Ill find the limits of the stock motor quickly
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 07, 2004 12:22 PM
all you will need for an motor that will make 500 is the right turbo, some good pistons and rods. Stock head and cams will work great.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 07, 2004 12:46 PM
yea..but the head has to come off to install the 1270 kit...might as well get it cleaned up a bit.
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VincentHill
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posted June 07, 2004 02:05 PM
Why Thin the walls and decrease the clamping area of the head gasket for 70 CC's that will not mean that much to the Turbo? I have looked at the only gasket you can get oversized "Cometic". Almost like the stock gasket, but the inside edges of the combustion chamber felt like they were cut with a torch or jigg saw!
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BA
Pro
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posted June 07, 2004 02:51 PM
70cc's may not mean much, but it seems like a great amount of valve unshrouding which I think the turbo would really love. No?
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 07, 2004 04:38 PM
I agree....unshrouding should greatly improve flow..which would be good alone in itself..but with a turbo should be magnified even more!
Ryan (at kevins shop) did the head cleanup on Garys (red 1361) and it came out magnificently. Wasnt a whole lotta "thinning"...just cleaning things up a bit...id think it would work out quite nicely.
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Nukedog
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posted June 08, 2004 01:06 AM
YCIS -- it may just be rumor but i hear the APE springs are not very good. I bought the Carpenter springs as they make 60lb and 70lb. I was told not to go over 60lb on a bike that would be on the street any. Hope this helps...
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 08, 2004 06:30 AM
cleaning the head up will not take away from the walls thickness. 70cc worth of valve unshrouding a turbo would like, but your head gasket wouldnt. I have used stock CC turbo pistons in all the turbo bikes. No head gasket problems. I cant say the same for folks I hear using 1397 and 1363 turbos and such....I know muzzys uses 1224cc billet blocks.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 08, 2004 06:49 AM
perhaps oringing is in order for the head while its off then.
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AnotherRedHead
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posted June 08, 2004 07:12 AM
oring the block, receiver groove the head, and use a copper gasket with carpet adhesive. Your piston will explode before your head gasket.....
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 08, 2004 07:17 AM
Is it even possible on a 1270 block?
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