TurboBlew
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posted December 27, 2003 09:21 AM
Mileage a big concern for used buyers?
Im curious as to how mileage affects your buying decision. Obviously I know it detracts from value.. but if you had the choice between identical bikes... but one had double the miles and was $500 less in cost... would you go for it?
Mileage is no guarantee that the bike has been maintained. Just look at Sherman's bike and mine for example. Ive got 18k on my 1yr old 2002 and nary a problem. A friend has a 2001 with 6,000 and he's already spun bearings and who knows whatelse in his motor. Sherman has got a bazillion miles, but looks like you can eat off it! Lucky's bike... well, thats just "fine china".  Rick's bike is clean.
Harry's bike looks like a junkyard dog...but runs like a raped ape.
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redelk
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posted December 27, 2003 07:02 PM
Just shy of 9,000 miles on the odo (and another one with 39K, sitting on my shelf) and it boils down to this....
Compression: 180 psi @14K miles / 176 psi @ 41K miles
Valves: averaged .002 tighter over time / all still within specs
Leak Down Test: exactly 8% on all four @ 43K miles
RWHP/Torque: 177 & 97 @ 16K / 182 & 95 @ 41K (after custom map)
Gas Mileage: average of 32 mpg since uncrated
Warranty Claims: none engine related - all recall work done
Clutch Plates: Original OEM steel & fibers - no blue on steels / no slippage (NO hard launches & all upshifts are clutchless)
My '97 7R had almost 69K on it when I traded it in for the 12R. As recent as last year, it was reported to be still running fine and likely had over 90K on the engine. I believe the majority of us here (not counting Harry) are simply beyond anal when it comes to taking care of our bikes. On the average, a used scoot with over 15K, sitting on the dealer's lot, could very well be a POS. After spending five hours this afternoon, sitting behind my dealer's parts counter, listening to what the majority of customers were asking for or buying... just left me shaking my head in disbelief. It didn't matter if it was a cruiser, dirt bike, ATV or sportbike (the worse), these folks didn't have a clue on how to take care of their bikes or ATVs.
I'm sure if one took a survey, over two-thirds of the folks here probably have a SERVICE manual for not only their 12R, but for just about every other motorized "toy" they own. On the other hand, I doubt if much more than 5% of the general motorcycle owning public has one. Not to slam those that have all the servicing done at the dealer, but the majority of the folks I heard today have not even cracked open their OWNER'S manual.
A trip back into the service area would make the average member here sick to their stomachs. Over 80% of the bikes, jetskis and ATVs back there for major repairs did not have to be there. Sure, some of them were due to obvious owner abuse, but that would only count for about one-third of all the units back there. The other two-thirds were back there solely due to maintenance neglect. Not "serious" maintenance like checking valve clearance, but "basic shit", like oil changes (or even checking to see if there was ANY oil) and clean air filters. It never ceases to amaze me on how someone can spend so much money on a ATV and ride it through mud puddles and dusty roads and NEVER bother to even check the air filters. Or when I hear the owner say, but I thought ya'll put oil in the bike when I bought it" and they don't understand why the motor locked up two years later.
This is not to say my bike is "perfect", but I'd gladly compare it to ANY other bike (12R or other) with 8,900 miles (actual) on it, owned by any of the yahoos I saw today. Last month, when I "prepared" my 12R for trade in, I tore the bike down to just the engine and frame. I went over every nut, bolt and bearing, making sure that everything was adjusted, torqued or lube properly. I even replaced a few minor parts because I felt it needed it (including a new rear tire). It was necessary and it will not improve it's value, but that did not matter to me. For me, I just wanted to be absolutely sure that the bike was in it's best possible condition.
The odds of getting such a used bike like this from some stranger or from a dealer's lot are somewhere between "slim" to "none". Unless I knew the previous owner real well, I wouldn't buy a used bike, no matter how low the mileage. A perfect example is my friend's '01 KDX 220 I'm currently working on. I just took off the head and was inspecting the KIPS exhaust valve set up. My friend said the previous owner had only run 5 tanks of gas through the bike before putting it up for sale. On top of the piston, I measured a carbon build up of OVER 1/8". The same applied to many of the exhaust valve parts. ONE EIGHTH INCH THICK! Most of the exhaust valves' parts were not even functioning properly.
My friend had been riding the dog shit out of it and uses a mix of 42:1 of Golden Spectro and 93 octane for about 2 months. I know that his type of riding with that mix ratio would not normally cause such a large amount of build up. The owner's manual recommends checking/cleaning the KIPS system every 600 miles. When we raced AMA enduros, we checked them after every event. My friend's bike doesn't even have 600 miles on it (if the previous owner is to be believed). IMHO, it's just another example owner neglect. Now, my friend is shelling out over $150 in parts and gaskets, just so I can go over the whole engine... with less than 600 miles on it.
Now, after I'm finished polishing the ports and doing a little other "engine magic" tricks, his bike will run better than one off the showroom floor. Still, if the previous owner had at least followed the owner's manual, I wouldn't be having to do all of this crap.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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princesskiwi
Administrator
MISTRESS of SMACK
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posted December 27, 2003 11:59 PM
bikes are light bulbs -
they burn out.
Miles matter.
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
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posted December 28, 2003 07:04 PM
that is true PK, but the newer bikes are like flourescent lights, they last forever if ya dont break them....
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TurboBlew
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posted December 29, 2003 03:08 AM
Thats what Im saying Jim. I just replaced a flourescent fixture in my home that had been there since 1988. Got the new electronic ballast type fixture now!
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted December 29, 2003 05:15 AM
its just my opinion, but if you take care of a newer bike there is no reason that you cant get as much mileage out of it as you do a car.....provided your riding/driving techniques are the same....we all know that isnt so, for bikes, espicially ZED....i have 16000 miles on my 02 model, and have had no problems with it what so ever..I have done the recalls on the bike when I got the notices. I do change my oil religiously. But truth be told, I am not easy on a bike, and my ZED is still wearing the stock binder pads, and chain. The pads will have to be changed very soon, and I will be going to braided steel lines for mountain riding. With a Corbin seat and my throttle meister, it will be all set up and ready for the highway as well as the mountains....Now if I could just get the tires to last a bit longer.......
But as far as baseing a decision on what bike to buy due to mileage......I would say that the overall condition, and service schedule would be more important to me than the mileage, unless it had astranomical mileage on it....And i would only buy a used bike form someone I knew, and knew they had take good care of it.....most people sell their bikes for a reason... For example I would buy Luckys bike, I know he takes dam good care of it, and its in great shape, the mileage on that bike wouldnt really matter.....Harrys on the other hand, not that he doesnt take care of it, but it doesnt look taken care of, (and I know how he fixed his cam chain tensioner). the mileage would be of more concern to me on that bike......again just my opinions....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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beansbaxter
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posted December 29, 2003 02:08 PM
Mileage should not be as important as the maintenance (i.e. valves, oil changes, etc.)...
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redelk
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posted December 29, 2003 06:26 PM
 Edited By: redelk on 29 Dec 2003 18:29
After subtracting my last two trips to the Gap, my '03 truck still has more miles on it than Lucky's bike.
The only reason I'm selling my 12R is the fact I can not afford two bike payments (12R & 10R).
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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