irdave
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted December 20, 2001 06:57 PM
Tire changing question...
Hey.
I'm trying to change the tires on a friends zx12... And the rear refuses to bead.
Has anyone else noticed difficulty getting that thing to pop?
For reference, it's a Dunlop 207ZR, 200/50-17.
Thanks much.
dave.
  
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted December 20, 2001 09:57 PM
A idea or two...
After changing far more rear tires then I'd like to admit, here's what I do with a difficult bead...
1. Remove the valve core and release all the air
2. If the bead is almost set, I'll push it further away from the lip. I'll use the tire machine's bead breaker if I have to.
3. Once the bead is almost or completely off the "lip" of the rim, I heavily spray fogging oil or WD-40 all the way around the rim. If I can spray the bead of the tire (again, since I already did it before mounting it onto the rim), I will.
Being the lazy guy that I am, I don't use soapy water. It's lubricating factor drops too quick as the bead gets closer to being seated. In other words, it takes too long and I might have to do it over.
4. Put the valve core back in and hit it with the air until I hear TWO distinct "POPS".
5. Finally, I'll let some of the air out to bring it to a "proper" pressure. This is a must, since it could easily be over 60 psi.
Now it's ready to go on the spin balancer.
Over the past 4 years, I've mounted over 70 tires this way and have NEVER had a single problem with using a spray lube instead of soapy water or straight liquid soap. At least be happy it's a D207 and has an "balancing mark" on the tire.
Most other brands don't have this mark. If it requires a quite a bit of weight to balance the tire, you might have to break the bead, rotate the tire on the rim a 1/4 turn, reset the bead and balance it again.
With the combination of a spray lube and hitting it with high psi to set the bead (try to keep it UNDER 70 psi, though), I can take a tire off the rim, mount the new one, and have it spin balanced in less the 7 minutes... and no, I don't do it "professionally". That's because my "true average" time is closer to 15~20 minutes.
Since I go through so many tires, my dealer got tired of me paying him to change them. He just had his mechanic show me how to use their tire changing & balancing equipment. Now, I just go in grab a tire off the rack (or from my "secret stash" in the parts dept.) and go change it myself.
That's what works for me. The thing is, there some guys here that can do it in half the time I can and that's just using tire irons and a small air tank (SERIOUSLY!). Maybe they'll share a few of their tips.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ZXtra
Expert Class
Posts: 490
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posted December 20, 2001 11:54 PM
Re: Tough rear...
Yes...I had the same problem. The front went on easy. The rear was a problem. I too reopened it, relubed it, and pumped in 70 lb. before I heard the "double pop".  -ZXtra
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The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick!
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irdave
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted December 21, 2001 09:05 AM
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3. Once the bead is almost or completely off the "lip" of the rim, I heavily spray fogging oil or WD-40 all the way around the rim. If I can spray the bead of the tire (again, since I already did it before mounting it onto the rim), I will.
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The WD-40 doesn't allow the tire to spin on the rim? I know that it's not a lubricant, but how long are you waiting before you ride the wheel after installing the tire with WD-40?
And thanks for the ideas.
dave.
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted December 21, 2001 09:53 AM
No spin zone
In almost every case, I change the tires during the week (usually on Friday evening). So I guess that it's at least 12 hours before I ride. The key phrase here is "almost every case". There has been about a handful of times that I changed a tire, went home, put it back on the bike and then hit the road. So, I guess that work out to about a hour or so. I've yet to have a single one move or rotate on the rim.
That's not to say that if one was to mount the tire and put it on the bike, right then, that there would be no slippage. I've always just taken my wheel of and took it to the dealer's shop. I've only once, taken the wheel off while the bike was at the dealership. On the other hand, it is the same method that they have used for over 10 years, on the bikes that customers bring in and ride off. So, I guess it doesn't present a problem for them either.
Having said this, I'd still play it safe and wait a hour or so before I'd be trying to set any land speed records. Odds are, it wouldn't be any problem, but why tempt fate, right?
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 21, 2001 11:18 AM
WD40????? YIKES!!!!!!!!!
I certainly have grown to respect RE's opinions but my r tires slip on the rim even without the help of WD40. Maybe its a drag race thing, but ain't no WD40 going on my tire beads.
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted December 21, 2001 12:27 PM
No, your quite right!
One has to keep in mind that I have REPEATEDLY said that I DO NOT do intentional wheelies (because I can't) or hard launchs. EVER! If one does either one, especially the hard launchs, I would agree that WD-40 would hardly be in one's best interest. They level of power the 12R delivers to the wheel could make this a tad risky.
I shamefully and apoligetically need to correct myself. I recklessly said "fogging oil or WD-40", when in reality, I have only used WD-40 ONCE in over 70 tires. I am sorry if I mislead anyone on this. Now I don't know if fogging oil (from Kawasaki) has any different lubrication properties then WD-40. It could be just as bad. I don't know. My dealer has NEVER had a can of WD-40 next to their tire machine. It's just that one time I couldn't find the can of fogging oil, so I grabbed a can of WD-40 off of one of their mechanic's work bench.
Entropy, your post made me realize how careless I had been in suggesting a lubricant to use. Like I said, fogging oil could easily be just as bad, but it's equally possible that it is not. Needless to say, there is no hint of fogging oil residue on the bead when I change the tire. Is this mean it's okay to use? Tough call.
Since I have never watched (closely) them change tires at the track or strip, I'm not sure what method of lubrication they use. The bottom line would be, what ever they use, should be good enough for the rest of us. Again, sorry if I mislead anyone.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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WhiteLightning
Novice Class
Posts: 41
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posted December 21, 2001 12:46 PM
de-lurk
Windex. Thats where it is at.
(it lasts ok - not real long but it is more then long enough to set a bead. also, if you drag guys are noticing slippage... Hairspray, extra hold - same thing dirtbikers and mountainbikers use on their grips. Works really well, slippery when wet, very solid hold when dry. Problem - sets fast.)
WL
re-lurk
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted December 21, 2001 01:52 PM
I don't know what my dealer uses but more often then not my tire slips around the rim. First time I thought the dealer had put it on wrong so I always checked the yellow dot when I picked them up. And next think I know the dots a 1/8th to 1/4 turn off the valve stem. I don't drag 'race'. But I do have a recurring wheelie addiction problem.
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BackMarker
Novice Class
Posts: 96
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posted December 21, 2001 03:18 PM
Tire mounting
The last tire I had mounted we used Honda spray. Worked very well, and there was no charge for the shine.
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irdave
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted December 21, 2001 04:31 PM
 Edited By: irdave on 21 Dec 2001 16:33
Here's what worked...
I spoke with the service manager at the Aprilia dealer (I ride an Aprilia...) He suggested warming the thing up (we were working in a cold garage in the evening (Colorado)) and a thick solution of dish soap and water- about 50/50. We had talked previously about a product just for mounting tires, available at Napa, but he said the soap and water was the best.
So... I stuck the buns in the sun for about an hour, whipped up some soapy water, found an air chuck that allowed me to inflate the tires without the valve core being in place, and voila! Pop! Pop!
So. Thanks for everyone's help.
If you get the chance, cruise over to www.sportbikes.net .
See ya.
dave.
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