fearless
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted November 18, 2003 07:39 PM
Question for redelk
You told me a while back you had a zx7 swingarm on your 12. I would like to try somthing like that with my 12 but i'm real curious why nobody has tried the 02-03 zx9 swingarm it has the extra bracing like the gxrs. So if you think its possible let me i'd sure appreciate it.
  
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted November 18, 2003 07:42 PM
not sure fearless, but I think it has to do with the mounting ability.....if I am not mistake the ZX7 and ZX12 swing arms are the same width at the pivot...not the case with the other swingarms....someone correct me if I am wrong
LUCKY12 is running a 7 swing arma s well...he could prolly shed some light as well
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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redelk
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posted November 18, 2003 10:44 PM
 Edited By: redelk on 18 Nov 2003 22:47
fearless, if you compare the 7R and 12R swingarms, the 7R is PLENTY strong enough and a "known" fit.
Here's a thread and some comments I've made on the swap. The pics are no longer linked. I've put together a album on Imagestation and posted a link to it (hope it works). You can also e-mail me at adcraft@sbcglobal.net if you have any more questons about the swap.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=6844
PROBLEM: The 12R shock spring would not clear the shock opening on the 7R arm.
SOLUTION: Rotate the top shock mount bracket 180°
Unfortunately, this also slightly changes the shock angle. What effect this will have on the shock's spring rate and such (i.e. rebound and compression rates and action) are still an "unknown".
PROBLEM: The 7R arm's pivot point (where it attaches to the frame) opening ID measurements are different on each side. The oil seal OD is 47mm on the right and 45mm on the left. The 12R is 47 mm on both sides. One would think you could just use the 7R seals, but when using the 12R pivot bolt to attach the 7R arm to the frame, the "big end" of the bolt is on the opposite side of the 7R bolt.
SOLUTION: I found a Federal Mogel oil seal that was 35x45x7 and even though it was 2 mm thicker, it did work.
PROBLEM: The 12R wheel assembly (wheel, sprocket hub, axle collars and rear brake caliper bracket) is wider then the 7R wheel assembly and the rear opening of the 7R arm is not as wide as the 12R.
SOLUTION: Machine 4.5~5mm off the outside side of the 12R rear brake bracket (NOT 7mm like pic indicates).
PROBLEM: The wheel and brake assembly would now fit in the swingarm, but axle would not go all the way forward.
SOLUTION: Machine the axle collar on the side next to the sprocket hub (not the side next to the swingarm) to a height of approximately 58mm.
I had to make sure not to grind off too much so the lip of the collar would NOT make ANY contact with the hub. The hub rotates, the collar does not.
PROBLEM: The rear ride height dropped almost 2"
SOLUTION: Drill new holes in the suspension's dogbones.
The OEM dogbones measure approximately 180mm between the hole centers. For testing purposes, I drilled a hole in each link, reducing the distance to about 165mm. This did not achieve the desired ride height, so I drilled an additional hole on the opposite side. The distance was now 155mm. This was just temporary until I determine what I feel is the proper length and have custom dogbones made to 160mm by Kennedy Machine.
Using shimes alone would not get away where close to the OEM ride height. A better solution would be to get adjustable dogbones and one could "fine tune" at will instead of being commited to one location. Of course, if you switch to an adjustable ride height rear shock (i.e. Penske 8900 series), you can continue to use the OEM dogbones.
BOTTOM LINE: This might not be the "correct" or "proper" way to make this swap. There are still some modifications that it might be needed, but generally, I think this is it. Right now, the bike's wheelbase has been shortened approximately 22mm. With a new chain and sprocket and cutting the chain to where the wheel is as far forward as possible, I might be able to shave off an additional 3 to 5 mm. This would be depending on the sizes of the sprockets.
After about six months of playing with tire sizes/brands, fork oil weights and so on, I finally got it the way I wanted it. Now, I got to prepare it for trade in on the 10R. Even though the 7R arm will stay on, I'll be including the OEM arm in the deal. The sad part is that after all that work, odds are that the 7R will be yanked off and my "baby" will end up stretched, slamed and blown up at the end of the nearby 1000' track. Oh well. It was a fun ride while it lasted.
Here a link to the album with some of the 7R pics
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288547829
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Ninjaman12R
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Posts: 4767
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posted November 20, 2003 11:35 AM
Let me add....
I've had the distinct pleasure of riding 3 12Rs with the 7R swingarm mod. Yes, I said three. One of them just so happens to be pictured on this page.  Without going into it too much, I'll say that this is one mod that will definitely make the 12 MUCH better in the tight stuff. Red's, Lucky's and Bart's 12s felt WAY more flickable, mid-corner line changes are effortless.
I got a chance to ride all 3 of these bikes at the gap and was very impressed by each of them. They retained the sure-footed feeling of the big 12R, but gained a ton of flickability. I like that, and I also like the fact that they wheelie even better with that shorter "arm" on there.  Yes, I did wheelie all three of 'em. 
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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fearless
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted November 20, 2003 06:46 PM
Thanks alot guys for all the information it was very helpful but i still would like to research my options on the zx9 swingarm.
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vozizm
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posted November 20, 2003 07:26 PM
very nice Mr. Elk!! DAMN NICE!
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 20, 2003 09:17 PM
Red...make the man a deal on you setup and trade it in with the stock arm!!
After you trade it in, you know your bike will be cruising University in a few weeks with some of those spinning wheels and a gold package anyway.....with a 10 inch arm and pussy strips a mile wide!
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RED NINJAS RULE!!
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redelk
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posted November 20, 2003 09:43 PM
Edited By: redelk on 20 Nov 2003 21:47
Thanks vozizm.
BITE ME kawachan. I could have gone all day (month... year... lifetime) without you pointing out what both you and I know will happen to my "baby" after I trade it in.
ANYWAY... where was I?
Oh yeah... swingarms. I will have to also add that both Ballistic and Lucky bikes had several distinct advantages over mine. Things that I wish I could have done, but didn't have the $$$. I got a little over $300 in it, but a half of a year's worth of time sorting it out to my liking.
Bart had the available capital and more importantly, the intelligence to left the installation of the 7R swingarm in the hands of professionals, which included a trip to Computrack. Mark was added by the ever so competent mechanic and machining skills of Roger. The results on both bikes were beyond impressive.
Another aspect their bikes had in common is that both of them have the Penske shock. Not only is it a dramatic improvement on any bike, but it's adjustable ride height eliminates the need for figuring out where to drill the holes in the dogbones or even investing in an adjustable set.
If I were to "score and rank" the three bikes, it would go something like this:
#3 - redelk
Reasons: Used mostly stock/OEM parts. Points are given for doing it on a "shoestring" budget, but complimentary parts such as a Penske shock and wave rotors would have taken better advantage of the new found handling the 7R swingarm provided.
#2 - Ballastic
Reasons: Starting off with a B series model already gave this bike a handling advantage. Using the Penske shock, wave rotors and having the bike's complete suspension set up tuned by professionals made this scoot a contender for the top spot. Being the only B model with a 7R arm (that I know of), just scores more points. Even with all the advantages, it's the "little things" that seemed to be poorly addressed (i.e. the rear rotor "issue") causes this bike to be just another "bridesmaid" to this group's top dog.
#1 - Lucky12
Reasons: This bike was a "total package" long before the addition of the swingarm. Though the A model is known to not quite handle as well as a B model, you couldn't tell that by what is probably the most cherry '00 12R rollin' on the back highways of TN & NC. Every aspect of the bike from it's engine, suspension, brakes and so much more have been tweaked to perfection.
Though most of the modifications done to this bike would not be thought of a "ground breaking" or unique. The fact that so many of these improvements have all been done on this bike, does make it truly one of a kind. With very minor alterations, this Über12R would be comfortable AND competitive at Maxton, the dragstrip, Barber Motorsports Park or just thrashin' the local twisties (and puttin' everything else out there back on the porch).
To have such a "complete package" makes it a no brainer to pick which 7R swingarm equipped 12R ranks #1.
My PERSONAL (and ignorant) Opinion On Using A 9R Swingarm
Fearless, your to be commended on wanting to try to utilize the 9R swingarm. All I can suggest is that really do the homework and triple check the math before you start yanking stuff off. Who knows, the 9R swingarm might not even shorten the wheelbase that much or it might shorten it so much that the rest of the suspension geometry will not be able to compensate for it.
Remember, this is all pretty well uncharted territory and the effects to the bike's overall suspension geometry is being radically changed. This even applies to putting on a 7R swingarm. Luckily, I was not the first to do it and I did have a reference point from other folks experiences with such a swap. One thing is for sure and that is the smallest alterations in fork location, oil weight, nitrogen pressure or the spring rates on either end will all just compound matters. Not to mention tire brand, size and pressure. I have tried 3 different front and rear tire sizes and two different brands, before I could say that I was even in the ballpark. With the shorter wheelbase, the overall package becomes far more sensitive to any and all minor changes in the suspension's other components.
This is all assuming that the 9R swingarm will even fit in a 12R frame. There is a lot more to it then the width of the swingarm will fit in the opening of the 12R. If your planning on having a "professional" assist you or you have a lot of experience in setting up race bikes for road courses (drag racing experience really won't be much help in this case), then I believe you might be halfway there. If not, be prepared to spent a lot of time (I'm talking about possible many, many MONTHS) on just getting the bike set up in a way that it can actually be called an "improvement" over what you started off with.
Measurements of all the ID and OD components as well as the relationships of the swingarm to the frame, axle, caliper bracket and the dogbone mounting points will all be VERY CRITICAL! The worst part is that even if it all appears to "fit" and "function" properly, does not mean that it will be an improvement. What kind of parts (i.e. OEM vs Penske, etc.) will also play a roll in what your final results will be. Some folks don't realize that the 7R has a lot more in common with the 12R than any other bike in the Ninja line. For example, the 320mm rotors and six piston calipers found on the 12R are identical to what is on the 7R (except the caliper color). Having owned both a '97 7R and a '00 12R and taken both of them apart more often then I'll ever admit, I can attest to many of these unknown similarities.
You might also be surprised on the strength of the 7R's swingarm. The pictures alone illustrate that it is much stiffer and stronger (and 4 lbs. heavier) than the 12R's arm. Being a cast piece instead of just a bunch of parts weilded together is another advantage (supposedly). Not to mention that the 7R and 7RR's swingarms (they are not the same but either will work) proven strength and endurance when 180+ HP of a Superbike is sent through it. I know that my 182 HP hasn't presented any problems and that HP number seriously pales in comparison to Mark's bike. Though not having the high tech aspects of the 9R's design, the P model (and 7RR N model) 7R swingarm does have over 8 years of proven performance. That alone is enough to make me hesitent in "breaking new ground" and using a swingarm from any other model. That's just me.
Fearless, I do not say this to discourage you in trying the 9R arm, but just keep in mind that none of us did this for appearance purposes. That was truly the VERY LAST thing on all of our minds. Our main focus was solely on improving the bike's handling... PERIOD! We all knew that it would alter the bike's handling when we shortened the wheelbase, it's just none of us knew for sure if it was actually going to be an improvement or a total waste of time and money. At least now we can say that it was not only an improvement, but one that kept the feeling of high speed stability the 12R has always been known for. That is what made it all worth while.
Mark and I were lucky enough to have each other to refer to for input on what worked and what didn't. I know that Roger, Mark, Jonathan and several others were a lot of help in getting my setup the way it is today. Without their honest (very important) and knowledgable input and opinions (which did not alway agree), I would have never been able to get it even close.
All the same, I wish you good luck and even better results with your project. I know that I for one, would like to hear how it goes.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ninja12
Needs a job
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posted November 21, 2003 08:01 AM
Why not shorten the stock arm? It's only about $400 to add inches
can't see it being more to shorten.
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redelk
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posted November 21, 2003 05:49 PM
I'm guessing that when they adding inches onto a swingarm, they are either replacing or just extending the slotted area for the axle. I don't know. Even if they cut and add more rectanglar tubing of the swingarm as well as elongate the axle slot, it seems that it would be cheaper to just get a 7R swingarm off of E-Bay. Here's what I spent on mine:
$66.00 for swingarm off e-Bay
$16.15 for sending payment FedEx
$43.93 for swingarm shipping FedEx
$85.00 for new bearings, etc.
$7.00 for 35x45x5 oil seal
$35.00 for custom made suspension links
$10.00 for a can of black powder coat
$253.08 total
Needless to say, I could have saved over $40 if I wasn't in such a damn hurry to get it. I'd be surprised if you could get someone to accurately cut an inch or so off the swingarm and reattach the axle slot for less than $200. Maybe you can, but I think the 7R swingarm is much stronger and has less flex then the 12R's arm. After looking closely at the braced 9R's arm, the 7R's still looks stouter. Just MHO.
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fearless
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted November 22, 2003 04:34 AM
Ninja12 thats a very good comment i called Chris Hill with Performance Psycle i totaly trust Chris's opinon on anything that has to do with my 12.his mapping and dino work is untouchable just ask Dan his son's set a record on a friend of mine's 12 that chris done.But anyway chris made the same suggestion why go through all the work of changing the swingarm why not shorten the existing one. So Chris was going to make a phone call to the guy who has been extending them for his other 12 customers.I'll know somthing today and i'll let you know. (As for the comment Kawachan made if your intersted Redelk make a price you know the dealer you buy your 10 from is going to hurt your feelings anyway !)
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 22, 2003 10:07 PM
quote:
(As for the comment Kawachan made if your intersted Redelk make a price you know the dealer you buy your 10 from is going to hurt your feelings anyway !)
That's right Sherm. You'll get more for the bike parting out the extras and trading in the bike BONE stock. More money for it means more extras for the 10 when it comes in......
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RED NINJAS RULE!!
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted November 23, 2003 05:30 AM
Sherm as a very nice bike, would seem a shame to tear it apart and destroy what he has built.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted November 23, 2003 06:49 AM
wow! Lot's of good info here; I've been wondering why people were going to the 7r swingarm- now you have answered the question- handling.
However I have this nagging question: peeps saying the stocker "has flex" has been something I've not experienced yet (or I've been blaming it on stock suspension components?)
Are you guys saying you can get the stocker to flex? Symptoms?
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted November 23, 2003 08:43 AM
push the bike really hard around a corner leaned way over...when the bike feels like its wallowing....some of that is flex coming from the frame and swing arm. The suspension doesnt works as well leaned way over. and when leaned way over the suspension is holding against centrifical force, helping to keep the tires in contact with the pavement....some flex is needed in the frame and swingarm, but too much will make the swingarm, act like a tuning fork. if the swing arm/frame rebound from the flex hard enough it can almost bounce the wheel off the ground......now I am not an expert by any means, but this is what I have gathered form talking to others and what I have read...and it makes sense to me.....but what do I know....lol
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 23, 2003 05:43 PM
Sherm's Bike!!
quote:
would seem a shame to tear it apart and destroy what he has built.
Believe me....it gets pulled down to the frame every couple of months or so. What is a lil parting going to hurt?? :-)
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RED NINJAS RULE!!
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fearless
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted November 24, 2003 05:28 AM
Kawachan , Thanks alot for the determination but I rode with Mark(lucky12) yesterday in a benifit ride for a fallen friend and kick ass rider that I'm going to miss alot. Mark said he didn't think redelk would part with the swingarm said the dealer with the 10 was going to take care of him. I know from experience thats BS i've bought around 8 bikes from Alcoa Good Times and got a good deal but they will only go so far there in it to make money point blank....
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted November 24, 2003 08:51 AM
hey Fearless...I only bought 1 bike from alcoa, my little 6RR...and I have to say that Alcoa took better care of me than my normal dealership. I bought 3 other bikes in the past 3 years form my local dearler. And Alcoa cut them by almost 500 bucks on the RR. I am looking for another bke right now, and am counting on Alcoa to do me right, and so far they are in the lead as far as price goes.....time will tell....
they are going to make money, they have to, all dealers do....they arent in buisness to lose money....smart dealers will know that they will make more off service on a bike they sell, than on the bike its self.....usually...there is always and exception....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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fearless
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted November 24, 2003 01:22 PM
Edited By: fearless on 24 Nov 2003 13:27
YES i totally agree Alcoa Good Times is the best dealership i have ever delt with . But what I'm saying is no dealer is going to give any more money than what the book trade value is no matter who you are. I Know Charlie the owner very well as far as buying a new bike they will no doubt save you money.I took my 2000 kawasaki vulcan in to trade on a 2002 zx12 I had over $14,000 in the vulcan including accessories they told me to take off the accessories and sell the on ebay they only offered me $7,500 so i left the bike with my salesman and friend Mark he did what everyone said couldnt be done he sold it for $12,500 so i bought the 12 and had money for extras needless to say i left the bikeshop with no money left! Yes i did give Mark a healthy bonus. So what i'm saying is either sell the bike outright or put it back bone stock and sell the accessories. I now keep everything i take off JUST IN CASE!
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redelk
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posted November 24, 2003 05:55 PM
There isn't enough bandwidth to tell all the good points of AGT. Everyone there from sales to Zack and the rest of the folks in parts (and even the service folks) are fantastic and really go out of their way to help all of their customers. At least that's the feeling I get from the few dozen times I've been there and talking with their customers.
From the very first Gap event, AGT has always offer to lend a hand or allow us to meet at their place. It's the attitude they all have that has made them the number two dealer in the whole mid US region and has been nipping at the heels (and in some quarters, actually surpassing) the region's number one dealer for almost a half decade. Since the mid region includes Texas, Illinois and other "big city" states, that's sayin' a hell of a lot!
On the other hand (redelk says with an evil chuckle), since AGT has been trying to take the number one spot in the region from Kawasaki Sports Center (conveniently located in Little Rock, AR), it ain't gonna happen until KSC stops getting every single dime I make, earn, beg, borrow and/or steal. Hell, I even worked there for a short while (a story for a different post).
All kidding aside, your basically right about book value on trade ins, fearless. Especially when you get into the aspect of having aftermarket products on a bike at the time of trade. No matter how many or how much they cost, there value is basically... ZERO at the time of trade. In almost every case, that value will mysteriously return when it comes time for them to sell. I have always agreed on the aspect of returning the bike to it's original condition and take off EVERYTHING you might have added on during your ownership. You'll make more money sell the parts on E-Bay at 10% of their original cost then you would in trade in the bike with the parts still on it. Hell, I've seen aftermarket parts REDUCE the trade in value, but I won't get into the reasoning about such.
Right now, my odometer shows just under 9,000 miles on my bike. Pretty low for a '00 model. Most folks that know me would believe there just might be a few more then 9K on the bike. When I finish "preparing" the bike for trade, those that do not know would not doubt the odo reading one bit. That would not just apply to the bike's general appearance, but it also would apply to just about every common "simple" test to determine the engine's current condition.
The valves are all within specs and the compression and leak down tests would match just about any 12R sitting on their showroom floor or even one that had been just broke in (properly). On the surface, this bike would rank "excellent", "clean" or "high" on any trade in appraisal and get top dollar in it's trade in value. In reality, the "questionable" amount of mileage could potentially reduce it's value. How much could be said to be directly related to the difference between the actual and the indicated. In my case, it could potentially go from "excellent" to "poor".
To compensate for that and to ease any "discomfort" the salesman might have about this "issue", I have decided to leave the PCIII, the "homemade" air filters (another story for later), the +1 rear/-1 front sprockets and the Muzzy Ti/CF oval system on the bike. It's these aftermarket parts that were responsible for producing 182+ RWHP on Chris Hill's with Performance Psycle dyno (ask him about the 5+ hours we spent on that "oil spitting bitch" of a bike).
Everything else will be removed and returned to stock, including the original owner's manual. The only other item will be dyno sheets reprinted of the runs (thanks to Chris making a floppy of the 13 runs for me). I still will have no problem sleeping at night since I know who has turned every nut and bolt, did every warranty or recall repair and each and every bit of general service work on this bike... me. Not to mention that several months of the extended warranty will still be effect and transferable at the time I trade it in.
My 7R that I traded in for the 12R had even a more... let's say, "exaggerated difference" between the "indicated" and the "actual". To the best of my knowledge, that bike is still running to this very day and probably is approaching the 100K mark (actual). Still, because of it's ACTUAL condition, I not only got the "excellent" book price for the trade in, but got almost $1000 off of the MSRP.
I still stand by my "remove everything aftermarket" rule when it comes to trade ins, but there are a few "exceptions" and this trade would qualify as one of those "exceptions". The only reason the 7R swingarm is staying on the bike is that I'm too damn lazy to swap it back to the OEM swingarm. Odds are, someone who's "into the twisties" will not be buying this bike. This "market" is not well know for buying a used, hyper powered bike's tuned for strafing an apex. The most common potential buyer will likely be one that is either into straight line stuff (street racing) or simply posing at the local park. With that being the case, the new owner will also get the OEM swingarm and a fresh set of bearings and OEM dogbones with the bike. So, if they want to switch it back or even have the OEM swingarm stretched, they have that option.
Since I can not afford to repaint my 12R, like I did my 7R (the 7R needed it, the 12R does not), I just want to remove any obvious indicator that it was once my bike. Besides the aftermarket parts, any decals or "faux" carbon fiber covering (snorkel, triple clamp, battery cover, etc.) will also be removed. When I'm finished, this 12R will look better then it did when we uncrated it, but still basically like any other green '00 12R out there today. Only a hand full of people, in the country, would be able to recognize it as mine and that's if the new owner left the 7R arm on the bike (which I doubt).
The bottom line is that I still owe the bank over a year's worth of payments and selling it myself is too much of a hassle. That is unless the offer is well above what I'll get in trade and then I'll think about it. As for all the stuff that I took off the bike, items that won't be transferred over to the 10R (i.e. Muzzy damper & fan, '03 12R seat, OEM windscreen, etc.) will be sold either here or on E-Bay. In the end, I believe everyone will be happy and I hope to keep my "trade in" record intact. That is, every bike I have ever traded in was resold within 48 hours. My 7R was sold for $6000 cash before I had even brought it in to trade (someone saw it parked there a week earlier and was told that it was going to be up for sale soon).
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fearless
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted November 24, 2003 07:25 PM
Edited By: fearless on 24 Nov 2003 19:41
Redelk to bad you don't live close i'm good friends with chris hill and i'm sure he would switch the swingarms for us . Oh well it was worth a try.As far as the twisties go remember the e-mail i sent you before DG 2003 if you do you know I EAT THEM UP!Thats why i'm determend to either put a zx7 swingarm on or take Chris Hills advise and just shorten mine for $225.00 it probably wont be as drastic as a 7 swingarm but chris thinks it will surely help the bikes handling
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redelk
Moderator
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posted November 26, 2003 02:04 PM
Just a few things to remember about altering the wheelbase.
1. If you shorten the OEM swingarm, you still might need to adjust the ride height via links or a shock that's adjustable (i.e. Penske). Odds are, a few shimes won't cut it (maybe a BUNCH of them or a real thick one would).
2. If your going to keep the OEM shock, PLEASE go and check the nitrogen level. You'll likely need to have it recharged. They'll need to have a Motion Pro nitrogen needle. The 12R shock doesn't have the normal Schrader valve. After 2 years of riding, mine had gone from the spec'ed 143 psi to just 60 psi. We bumped it up to the Race Tech spec of 200 psi.
3. Get ready to start tweaking... both physically and emotionally. It will take time to get it just the way you want it. As I have said in other posts about the 7R swap, such a radical change will effect every other aspect of the bike's suspension as well. Settings, positions and pressures that "worked before" no longer apply.
It's even a tad more complicated than getting a new bike set up. Many of the "qwerks" of a new bike have already been addressed by the engineers. In doing such a swap, you have effectively redesigned the bike, thus a little more personal R&D might be required. You might find a configuration early on, that seems to be an improvement, but don't settle for just a "slight" improvement. If possible, do "back to back" comparisons with other 12Rs (especially B models).
For the longest time, I had a set up that cut great corners, but still had a slight more twitchy feel then I liked. Only after getting several other 12R riders to swap bikes with me and share their opinions was I able to get the most out of my set up. My final tweak was to switch from my beloved Pilot Sports to Diabo Corsas. That alone was a dramatic improvement, which I still find hard to believe to this very day. It just seemed that in my case, the Corsas were better matched to the demands of the shorter wheelbase and clompleted that quest for the same "planted" feel I had with the Pilot Sports and the OEM swingarm.
Still, each rider has their own preferences and expectations. All I'm saying is stick to your preferences and set your expectations high.
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D
Needs a job
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posted December 02, 2003 06:13 PM
- for RZ350
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted December 02, 2003 08:02 PM
Shortening the wheelbase is a good thing. But the trend in the industry is to shorten the frame and lengthen the swingarm, giving the bike a great stability. Hence the 10R's stacked gearbox which greatly shortens the engine package.
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