deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 16, 2003 02:21 PM
Burping worked guys !!!
OK. This is an open statement to Kawasaki. You guys are BUTT WADS for designing such a GREAT bike that needs "burping" when I:
1. Change the oil
2. Upgrade my clutch
I LOVE my '12 - it is the best bike I have ever owned. But if I F#$@ED is up because of the burping problem... I'm comin down to Kawi US headquarters to kick some engineer ASS!!!
BTW - thank you EVERYONE who helped/gave me advice while working on my clutch. Is there a gathering that you will all be at soon? I'm comin and buying the first round!!
  
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted November 16, 2003 02:38 PM
quote:
OK. This is an open statement to Kawasaki. You guys are BUTT WADS for designing such a GREAT bike that needs "burping" when I:
1. Change the oil
2. Upgrade my clutch
I LOVE my '12 - it is the best bike I have ever owned. But if I F#$@ED is up because of the burping problem... I'm comin down to Kawi US headquarters to kick some engineer ASS!!!
BTW - thank you EVERYONE who helped/gave me advice while working on my clutch. Is there a gathering that you will all be at soon? I'm comin and buying the first round!!
I always prefill my oil filter, and have never had an oil light problem when changing oil. However, 3 years ago, after being broadsided by a broad, after picking up my bike, my oil light did stay on, and I had to repatedly turn the engine off/on before the problem went away. I know others have also had this problem, and I believe that a design defect is responsible for this problem....
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 16, 2003 03:08 PM
The wierd thing about this MEgabyte, is that I WASN'T even changing my oil! I was putting a brandy new muzzy clutch basket and clutch into my bike!! The bike was running FINE before the clutch change. I also "prefill" my filter every time I change the oil, but the last time I changed the oil, the oil light went on even WITH the prefill. I just hope all this crap with the oil light on isn't hurting the engine.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted November 16, 2003 03:24 PM
probably dumb question here, but what exactly do u do when prefilling the oil filter? obviously u dont fill it right up cause it would all spill when u go to screw it on. do u fill it in, let sit for a minute to soak up, then drain teh excess?
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k bryant
Needs a job
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posted November 16, 2003 03:38 PM
I've changed the oil 5 x now, and have never pre-filled the filter, and never had a problem. Light goes out almost immediately.
Though you guys are going the extra yard in ensuring almost immediate oil pressure, I just don't see it being a necessity. Now if your engine was completely torn down and bone dry, then sure, priming is a common and smart practice. But unless there is an engineer from Kawasaki and/or Doug Meyer is saying to do it, it's not mandetory. With the oil film and/or whatz left in the engine between oil draining/filling, I just could not imagine damage.
Do we have factual damage occuring out there by not pre-filling with some of your engines???
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 16, 2003 03:49 PM
HEy K - I'm not sure about damage, but not seeing the oil light go off for like 4 minutes... SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF ME. Also, when you "burp" the filter during one of these times, it is as if the oil is not flowing, because the engine litterally "burps" an air bubble (and some oil) out. Strange stuff.
Freek - I fill her right up to the top, and let the little bit of excess drip out when screwing the filter in. Just keep the oil pan under the filter  (don't forget - you'll get crap all over the floor!!).
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k bryant
Needs a job
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posted November 16, 2003 04:05 PM
Eeh.... 4 minutes most definetly sounds scary to me too. Man I'd be looking at putting a pressure gauge in line/stream somewhere to find out if it's just a light issue.
Somebody would have to show me how you could have a "air bubble" in this oiling system. Just don't see it being possible.
Now on a radiator, with all those channels, hoses going every which way and at all kinds of angles, thermstat, etc. And the fact that it does not have a very stong sense of pressure pushing the flow by way of the impeler, that makes complete sense to have to "burp/bleed" the coolant. Obviously once you put the cap on, you've got good pressure. But I'm not sure that really has an affect on flow rate..????
Well like I said, maybe one of the johnny tech heads will jump in and explain the theory and engineering dynamics on this.
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CanadaMaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted November 16, 2003 05:16 PM
It sounds to me like the oiling system (pump)is losing its' prime. There are certain types of oil pumps (mostly vane pumps in my experience) that do not produce enough suction to draw the oil up from the sump. I will have to dig into my service manual and see if the 12 has this type of pump.
When you drain the oil and the intake to an oil pump drains down, sometimes the pump has a hard time creating enough vacuum to draw the oil up out of the sump..... and I can see how the pump would appreciate the lowering of the pressure on the outlet side of the pump (i.e. loosening the filter. Since oil is a liquid and is not compressable (for all intents and purposes), once the siphoning of the oil from the sump is complete, it should be fine (unless for some reason the intake bleeds down again).
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 16, 2003 06:23 PM
well, the BIG question is.... did it damage my bike before I "Burped" it? I hope not!!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted November 16, 2003 06:42 PM
You pour oil in the filter to "prime" the element. Maybe its just habit from owning turbocharged vehicles... but it makes me sleep better at night....lol
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 16, 2003 07:25 PM
but I DO pre-fill the filter... and it STILL needs burping sometimes. that is the crazy thing
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 16, 2003 09:05 PM
Eh...changed the oil numerous times...changed the clutch plates even more times...sometimes I prefill the filter..sometimes I dont..depends on if I have oil within arms reach of the stool im sitting on changing the filter out
Never had to burp the motor..oil lights never stayed on.
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted November 16, 2003 11:48 PM
I've seen the oil light problem manifest itself after a tipover, after changing oil, and after a complete rebuild. As long as I know the fix, I'm ok with it. But it's a PITA, for sure.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted November 17, 2003 06:19 AM
I had the "long-light" issue a couple times (not every time, & not DP's duration, but 30sec. or so seems too long from my taste), so I pre-fill the filter & the light goes right out now.
I also will "bump" the starter several times before really pushing on it (turning it over several times before letting it start), which also seems to help? This doesn't always work cuz the bike starts right up... 
Anywayz, I sleep better knowing the pressure came right up....
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
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posted November 17, 2003 09:41 AM
My Ducati did it, but it would do it for no reason at all... I just igored it 
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 17, 2003 01:28 PM
Fill the filter until it no longer absorbs oil.....takes about 5 minutes.....fill...do something else...come back re-fill.....do something else....come back , re-fill.....repeat until oil stays just below the threads.
Some people just fill it and put it on, not realizing that the filtering element absorbs a fair amount of oil thus leaving air space.
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necro
Needs a job
My Grandma Is A Virgin
Posts: 2148
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posted November 17, 2003 09:32 PM
Hum, I never filled the filter and never had a problem. I will start doing that though.
A word of caustion. When you go to "do something else" be careful about contaminating the oil.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted November 18, 2003 03:05 PM
Freek, the thing they are not saying is you can fill the oil filter to the top and if you wait a few minutes, it will be almost empty when the fibers are saturated! I take about 10 minutes to fill it a few times until it retains 1/2 the height in oil! The main deal here is to drain all of the oil out of the pan and the having the oil filter pre-oiled, "QUICKLY" change the filter! Do not let the oil run out of the filter hole mount!
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aliveagain
Needs a life
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posted November 18, 2003 04:30 PM
I wonder if it makes a difference whether or not the bike is on a stand when you change the oil.I never had a problem yet and I use a stand.
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k bryant
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posted November 18, 2003 04:44 PM
So.... Does Kawasaki recommend or say this is required? I'm not saying it's not a good idea. It is, and it's cheap insurance. And you definetly can't go wrong doing it.
But does KMC say to do this? Yes or No?
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 18, 2003 05:39 PM
NO....not KMC.....just a personal thing I do , but commonly known through out the automotive industry and through alot of the motorcycle industry.
I've been doing this for 20 years.....my dad taught me this...he was a gas station mechanic in the old days.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 18, 2003 08:38 PM
Stand doesn't make a difference Alive. In fact, the first time that my bike had a problem with the oil light not going off, I had JUST purchased a brand new Pit Bull rear stand (and the first thing I did was change the oil with my new stand - DOH). The light didn't go off for about a minute before I realized something was wrong and did research here and on zx-12r.org.... then I realized that LOTS of people have had this condition, and I discovered the "burping" solution. BTW - some guys have even reported that they spun bearings shortly after the oil light not going out - that is why I'm crapping my pants. I love my '12 too much to re-build the whole damn engine.
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