posted October 13, 2003 09:57 AM
Rear Tire Comparo - 200 ver 190 Didn't have anything better to do this weekend, so I did a back to back "open-minded" tire comparision. I used brand new Bridgestone BT012SS for the test. Ripped through the mountains 161 miles on Saturday on a new 200. Did the same (actually 141 miles) on Sunday on a 190. These were knee dragging, flicking, hard miles at fairly low air pressures (32lbs on 200, 31 lbs on 190). No cruising.
While the 190 offered better flicking feel, I have to say my opinion is unchanged on the vague feeling it gives when pushed hard. It slides far, far easier, and gives the feel of running off the edge more than the 200. But I think I understand more now why...
The rim diameter plays a vital part. The 6" rim is on the border (though still ok to run)for a 190. Now why can you run a 190 on all the other open class sportbikes, and run circles around a ZX12? Yes, the smaller rim (I believe all other open classers run a 5.5") helps make a better profile of the 190. But honestly, I think it has more to do with weight, horsepower/torque, & geometry of the ZX12. In other words, the 12 has lots of all of it, therefore, in my humble opinion, it more tire to handle it.
Sooo....jw - I could deal with the 190, but it's just too vague. For this bike, it doesn't work for me. For all you guys who like the 190, and in some cases the 180, more power to ya. We just push/judge the tire differently.
And oh, I rode a 2003 CBR954 Sunday afternoon for 90 miles in the same mountains. My god, if the ZX10 is anywhere close to this bike (and hopefully it's much better), we'll have a real winner on our hands.
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posted October 13, 2003 04:46 PM
Actually, I would basically agree with your assesment of the various rear tire sizes, but I also have a very different take on it. Their are but just a mere handful of folks here, that would take a tire to it's TRUE limits. There are also many of us that will get nowhere near that limit. It's for that very reason that we might feel (speaking for myself only) the 190 or 180 turns in quicker.
Like I've always said (at least for now), the only time I scuff my pucks is when checking tire pressure. ____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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posted October 13, 2003 04:54 PM
K...here we go again....while I dont ride anywhere near your level, I will say this of my expierence on 190 and 200 series tires....I m running a 190 M-1 now...I had it on for DGVI. I thiink that it does make the bike handle better, and make it feel more stable. But, I agree that it does feel like I am running out of tire way sooner than the 200...but tha tis only at serious lean angles. Now one thing I have noticed is that my bike has picked up a head shake at high speeds now...not sure if its the tire size, or tire type......I guess part oif the stability feeling can be because of the tire it is, and not the size it is......but like the old saying goes....if it aint broke, dont fix it....so I will be sticking with this combination of tire and size.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted October 13, 2003 05:20 PM
The 200 works fine for me. I was looking at fishies 180 on his 12. It looks like the only thing gained is that you lose about 1" of tire on each side when leaned over?!?!?!?
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uh oh
posted October 13, 2003 06:08 PM
Very cool. Whatever works for you is all good.
Dino, you've got me on that last sentence though.... "It looks like the only thing gained is that you lose about 1" of tire on each side when leaned over?!?!?!"
posted October 13, 2003 07:30 PM
let me get this straight.. u run out of tire faster on a 180 or a 190? i hear that the 200 has the most when leaned over, but arent u gonna be draggin cases before u run out of tire with teh 180/190?
posted October 13, 2003 08:50 PM
well yes, i'v learned that lesson on both sides of the bike i guess the point is, are any of the 3 tire size choices gonan be the limiting factor when it comes to lean angle?
posted October 13, 2003 09:34 PM
Yes, all things being equal, you'll run off the 180 sooner. But so many other things can change/compensate for that problem. Air pressure, apex, faster/slower speed (but same angle of lean - think about it...), etc. But again, all things being equal, there's no question.
How you ride means everything. On my '99 ZRX11 (yes ZRX), it had a 5" rim with a 170 series tire. I never once touched the "low footpegs", and never had any trouble keeping up with anyone on anything in the mountains. Why? Fock I don't know. I think fast riding is just fast riding no matter what your riding. (oh that's deep). You adapt, you compensate, you squirt & flick. That's about it. Who knows? Who cares? I think this late night rip on the RC51 has got me punchy. I'm slightly amped up. Gee, one more Red Bull and I might be able to ramble on for another hour or so...
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posted October 14, 2003 04:20 AM
lol....I have heard rumors of a 190/55.....that would be a tire I would like to try......I think they said the Supercorsa's can be had in that size...but dam the tire life would suck in a Supercorsa on the street
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted October 14, 2003 08:25 AM
Well K, I really trust your judgement. I do know I ran out of tire once on a 180. And I agree with your assessment on the 6" rim vs. tire profile.
Now that I don't have my 12R anymore its pretty much a moot point for me.
But, if I were to ride the 12 on the track with the increase in corner speeds I'd consider running a 200 based on K's research.
Now I'll be learning how to retard motard my KTM and backin' that thang in!!!
posted October 14, 2003 08:41 AM
Hey, no problem! We can do the motard thing too! I've been switching my YZ450F back and forth between moto & motard. It's totally cool to see it making such an impact in the sport. I raced the original "ABC Wide World of Sports Superbikers" for 3 years back in the day. So I've always loved the sport. I got back into it about 4 or 5 years ago when I went to Button Willow Raceway with Doug Chandler & Tommy Haydon. I used an XR650L that had 68 hp @ the rear wheel that we built for a magazine article in Motorcyclist or Sportbike magazine (I was DOO @ White Brothers). Been back hooked on it ever since.
posted October 14, 2003 05:39 PM
K,.... I WAS driving last night That last sentence meant that when you compare a 180 and a 200 on a stock rim,......the 180 has about 1" less tire on each side. The 180 is about even with the rim and the 200 goes out past the rim. Sooo,....it seems to me you could get more lean angle out the bike with a 200!
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posted October 14, 2003 06:37 PM
theroetically that would be true Dino......but tire type, adn air pressure have a lot to do with it as well...but yes all things being equal you should get more lean angle out of the 200.....the 200 seems to me to offer better traction as well, at less intense angles.....but to me then feel like they are over powering the front......almost felt like the front was plowing......is perfect for me with the 190....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted October 15, 2003 08:04 AM
I've used 207's in the 200. They are only ok(as long as you keep the pace down). Now I use supercorsas in 190 (if they were avaliable in 200,I'd have them). BTW,Hayden used Dunlop slicks 195/65-17 on his RC51(Factory)bike. There are 2 makers of 190/55-17 tires (Pirelli & Metzeler). Well OK, maybe just one! I like the canyons and Fontana (AMA)for my entertainment.I am "ham-fisted" so I go through 2 rears in a trackday. Spinnin the rear coming out of T15 is addicting(but KILLS tires!)
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A NOD IS AS GOOD AS A WINK TO A BLIND HORSE
posted October 15, 2003 03:06 PM
I believe Nicky used 16.5" & 17". But you can't compare the sizing of slicks to Supersport tires.
Example - 180/55-17 is a popular Superbike size tire, as well as a common Supersport tire. Compare say a Dunlop KR108, to a 208GP. Their dimensions are completely different from slick to DOT tire. Recommended rim with is different, tread width, diameter, tire pressure, etc.
Point is tire sizes are different from slicks to DOT, just as much as they change from brand to brand (same size, different brand, are not the same measurements).
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posted October 15, 2003 04:10 PM
point in case.....I went from a 120/70 on the front of the 01 6R with a Supercorsa, adn the suspension settings had to be changed when I went to the 120/70 H2...the profile of the H2 is much different.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted October 15, 2003 06:40 PM
necro - that's a good point. But "handled better" needs to be completely broken down by it's meaning. Handling better may be more comforting and confidence inspiring, but does it mean you actually go the fastest on it? Now that has to mean it was your intention to be fastest on it. Maybe the comforting feeling it gave you was all you wanted; and that's cool.
It's such a compromise to find something that handles good, yet gives you the desired result of being fastest. But again, that's a biased statement by me, since that is what I personally am looking for. When I'm laying the led to the thing, it may not be "handling" as good as I want, but the speed, or lap times reflect that it's all good. I've reached a "compromise" in the overall package.
It's like a top level racer saying that the tire was working great. But you watch the guy on TV, and you go "my god, how the hell is he keeping it on 2 wheels" It appears to be all over the place. The secret lies in the fact it's "predictable" to him. Therefore, he can push it to 100%. But for the most part, everything is a compromise.
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posted October 13, 2003 09:57 AM
posted October 13, 2003 04:46 PM
posted October 13, 2003 06:08 PM
i guess the point is, are any of the 3 tire size choices gonan be the limiting factor when it comes to lean angle?
posted October 15, 2003 08:04 AM
