zxfingyz
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posted October 10, 2003 10:56 AM
Racing/riding schools
Anyone go to any of the racing/riding schools? I almost went to the C.L.A.S.S. school this summer. What do you realistically come away with after attending one of these? Any recommendations?
  
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necro
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posted October 10, 2003 11:26 AM
I took all four level of California Superbike Racing School. It was awesome. Take everything I knew before and throw it out the window.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted October 10, 2003 04:12 PM
I took the Ed Bargy Racing School down here in GA.....it was a one day event, and very informative....I learned alot about the physics of the bike and how it works....and they taught me how to apply that .......I strongly recommend a good course to anyone who ride a sportbike....or who just wants to be a better rider.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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k bryant
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posted October 10, 2003 04:56 PM
You can't go wrong at any of them. But your learning curve will take a giant leap forward if you get on a dirt bike as well. Take one of those schools. Better yet, find one of the dirt track schools offering XR100's.
I learned more from Doug Chandler when we trained on FTR250's w/o front brakes on a short track, than I learned on a RR course. It's all about sliding and throttle control. That's where the big step up (down) in lap times and being smooth came from. The braking/corner thing came pretty natural just from repeated practice and trial/error.
Most of all, just enjoy yourself and don't take it too seriously. You've had a great day when you go home with no broken bones and the bike still in one piece. Good luck.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted October 11, 2003 06:15 AM
when you are out for a trackday or in a scholl I always keep on e thing in mind....there isnt a big tittied womn at the end of the day holding a trophy, or a check.......and my insuracne wont cover it if I go down.....my track days are teaching me alot. Teh fastest lap time I turned on my 01 6R at Roebling was 1:29.5, I turned a 1:23.8 yesterday on the 6RR, on oem tires......the track record is 1:16....I was very happy with that.....with some good tires I think I can shave a few more second.....just need to go into Turn 1 harder and deeper.....but I am not getting a trophy for it, soooo.....lol
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k bryant
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posted October 11, 2003 01:56 PM
That's some really respectible times. Way to go. Ya know what the best trophy is? It's the one where you shred that corner till your hearts in your throat from braking hard enough to think about not flicking that bitch into the corner and wanting to stand it up and go straight. Then if you decide to flick it in, it's feeling your butt puckering into the seat cover as you wonder if the tires will hold the angle and power you're feeding in.
No trophy will give you that feeling. Because it will always be in your memories and you take it where ever you go. Simply put, your a fast guy and you don't need the trophy to prove it.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted October 11, 2003 02:30 PM
not fast, just too stupid to know when I am going too fast....lol my goal right now is to get in the teens on the track...if I can do that I will be happy...the ike and I both are going to need some improvements to do that....you know how hard it is to shave those last few second off....I need to upgrade the brake pads and lines, regear the bike to get the most out of it on the straight, and grow much bigger kohones.....lol will keep ya posted though.......I was really suprised on how much more power the 6RR makes over the 01 6R....I am getting about 10mph more out of the RR at the end of the straight, and still braking at the same place.....got to go deeper in the corner, adn holding the throttle longer will give me more on top.....atleast it all sounds good in theory....lol
I think going to some other tracks will help me round my skills out some too...give more confidence in me and the bike, so I can go deeper in the corner, and control the OH SHIT factor....
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CrotchRocket
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posted October 11, 2003 03:38 PM
 Edited By: CrotchRocket on 11 Oct 2003 16:38
Rickey Gadsons SportBike DragRacing School...
I highly recommend it!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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k bryant
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posted October 11, 2003 04:56 PM
Huh? Rickey don't do corners....
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted October 11, 2003 05:50 PM
hey K, he said sportbike DRAGRACING SCHOOL......duh.....lol
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k bryant
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posted October 11, 2003 07:54 PM
Yea, I read that... I guess I shoulda added an icon that showed I was playing... But since the thread started off with a Roadrace school (C.L.A.S.S.) type question, well, the natural direction would continue towards that, Dirt Track, or Moto-X. I don't know many that went the Drag Race School direction to improve skills or laps times in RR. But I guess that brings up a good question.... Do many RR type guys get into the Drag Race School thing? I did back ages ago and tried to pick up some pointers from Dale Walker, Pee Wee Gleason, and Russ Collins. Can't remember if it really helped or not. Just never really got much out of it. It's over too dang fast!
Peace.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted October 12, 2003 04:58 AM
never had any classes in Drag Racing...just toyed with it out at the trck...we have an 1/8th mile just up the road....use to go out with some of the guyuson a test and tune day..Its fun, but not something that I would do unless there were a bunch of buddies out there......
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 12, 2003 06:18 AM
The Penguin racing school is well worth the money. Ya always learn somthing new.
Depending on what you are looking to get out of the session is what you take away from it. The beginner class starts with classroom stuff, basic track rules, flags, what a race line is and what brake markers are, how to prep your bike for track use, followed by track examination as a group riding to each corner and getting off the bike and looking around at the corner as the instructor points out where you want to be and what you should have allready done by this point on the corner and what you need to be doing at that point to get out of the corner clean etc. You do that all the way around all 12 turns at Loudon (NHIS). Then you play follow the leader at a very moderate pace. The goal during this session is to make your bike track right over the tracks of the instructors bike and then to start picking brake markers and gear selections for each of the 12 turns.
The first time you start trying to put all this together on a race track it seems like a lot to remember and execute but after 20 laps or so its starts to be routine. Thats when the instructer starts to heat up the pace to a more "normal" speed that most of you probably ride at during an agressive Sunday AM street ride. This is whan you start to have fun. There is NO pressure to ride faster than you are comfortable with, and they will drive this into your head all day long. The goal withnthe beginner class it to familiarize you with all the stuff you need to know to race and race safely.
The next level is more focused on refinement on all the above, as well as more detail on proper bike setup. You start to recongnise what the bike is telling you (or should be telling you) and what it means. All motorcycles are subject to the same dynamic forces and physics weather its a ex500 or a GP bike. Physics is physics.
This is where some schools start to differ.
The Penguin racing school's opinion is different from some other schools in one area in particular. Counter steering the bike. Peter Kates is a larger than average, roadracer size guy much like Arron Yates. I believe that some of his opinions are based on what he has learned racing as a +6' and 200+ pound guy. I fall into this catagory as well. But he believes, as is the schools general belief, that countersteering is not the prime factor in holding a line. And that it souldnt be. Keeping the bike just shy of neutral in a corner with center of gravity changes and minimal counter steer saves a higher percentage of available (front tire) traction for lateral grip instead of for holding the line. This allows the front tire to more easily make corrections to the line with counter steer while also keeping front tire temps lower and giving longer tire life. Also when the bike gets loose and its closer to neutral in the corner with minimal reliance on countersteer to maintain the desired line, the sudden loss of counter steer force from the front contact patch on the bike is less dramatic and the bike doesnt become as "upset" and you can push it harder so the theory go's.
I've read several bits about riding schools in different varrious rags and sometimes they mis quote Kates as saying that he says "counter steering doesnt work" not understanding that he is just trying to avocate using it less to control your line than peg presure and center of mass transfer etc.
But its no wonder that the american rags dont understand what he teaches, how could they, they are writers not racers.
I'd like to see pressure transducers put on the handlebars of the top 10 racers as well as all the different schools bikes and see how the data wrings out.
I'll bet the guys that are killing the front tires use more countersteer to set and hold thier lines. It also can be a rider size thing. Bigger guys dont need to change thier own (rider) center of mass as much to change the combined bike/rider center of mass. This may be one reason a bigger rider may need less counter steer because he also requires less (seat) movement. Look at E Boz, he is tall but thin and hangs off the bike with his upper body almost freggin below the fuel tank. You will never see Aron Yates do this. He almost certainally would need opisite countersteer (help stand the bike up) to get his upper body this low in the same given turn at the same given speed.
Anyway, whatever school you choose the basics are the most important, and it can make you a better rider on the street.
Remember, if you crash your nice street bike at the track your insurance wont cover it.
But if the bike ever happened to fall out of a pickup truck on some back road because a strap broke and you had to call the cops so you had an accedent report to submit to your insurance company, that would be covered.
KB, any thoughts on this?
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Y2KZX12R
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CrotchRocket
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posted October 12, 2003 07:15 AM
Hey K, just to comment on your comment about what DragRacing has to do with RoadRacing...
When the light turns green and you get the HoleShot, your out in FRONT and the first into Turn 1...Yes, there have been RoadRacing guys being taught by DragRace guys for the purpose of being the first into turn 1...
Hope that helps you!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
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k bryant
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posted October 12, 2003 08:05 AM
"But its no wonder that the american rags dont understand what he teaches, how could they, they are writers not racers."
Hold on Y2KZX12 - Some of the fastest riders on the planet are magazine guys - Don Canet, John Ulrich, Kent Kuntisiga, Alan Cathcart, Nick Ienatsch and a slew of others.
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k bryant
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posted October 12, 2003 08:29 AM
Ok that being said, the Penguin School has a good rep and has been around a long time. So people must be happy with it.
But I feel that they are completely off base on the counter-steering thing. For me, it has more to do with the speed you are taking a particular corner at. It's all relative. The slower you go, the less counter steering you need. Faster, you need much more. Peg pressure definetly comes into play, and it's something most riders don't use enough of. Dirt Trackers & Moto-X guys are experts at peg pressure being just as important as counter steering input. Now obviously they are counter steering gurus as well, because of traction changes/limitations. But getting back to the point. All things being equal (ie; dry pavement, good tires, etc. ) counter steering input is directly related to your speed in a corner. Nothing else. I can see the argument about how much one hangs off affecting that input. But most of us do it for cornering clearance, angle gauge, crash saver, etc. It just makes you feel like you're one with the machine and you're both attacking the corner instead of just sitting on it "along for the ride". One can't do squat without the other. Gee, can you tell I think of a motorcycle as a living, breathing entity...
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