CanadaMaxxer
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posted September 27, 2003 08:29 AM
Throttle position sensor
I am in the process of trading my Vmax for an '01 ZX12, but it has a damaged TPS. I went to the Kawasaki USA website, and looked at their entire parts catalogue.....and there is nothing on the TPS. They show it on the picture of the throttle bodies, but no number. I called the local dealer, and their parts dept had no idea either. The dealer will be calling Kawasaki on monday (if the parts guy remembers), and should be getting back to me at that time (once again if he remembers). This doesn't seem right...is the TPS only available with the throttle bodies? Is this some glaring catalogue error? Does someone out there have the part #?
Thanks,
Canadamaxxer (damn, now I have to change my alias!!)
  
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fish_antlers
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posted September 27, 2003 10:13 AM
what damage is there to the TPS? did you put a meter on it?
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BA
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posted September 27, 2003 12:26 PM
the TPS is only available from Kaw. with the throttle bodies....I got that straight from Doug Meyer last month.
However, it may be possible for a very resourceful person to look at that TPS and decipher WHERE it really came from and who the ACTUAL manufacturer of it is.
With that information, one could possibly go around Kawi to get the TPS only. 
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fish_antlers
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posted September 27, 2003 12:39 PM
come on BA... out with it!
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zx12richard
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posted September 27, 2003 02:29 PM
Yea but try this piece of info.... I haven't confirmes it personally yet but heres the info from another site..
Here you go guys!!!!
1st. Go to Ronayers.com
2nd. Click " Fiche "
3rd. Click Kawi
4th. 2000 zx6r
5th. Go to Carburetor
6th. Look at picture on the right side you will see Part # 21176
7th. Part is #21176-1083 $90.64
Spoke to a very good engine builder that used it and it works!! All carbed zx6r's should have it. You can find complete used carbs for around $50-$75.
ITS THE SAME SENSOR!!!!
YEA, PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
Thank you, thank you very much!!!!
Copied and pasted..
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zx12richard
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posted September 27, 2003 02:35 PM
 Edited By: zx12richard on 27 Sep 2003 15:35
Heres the full thread..
http://www.zx-12r.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15758&highlight=tps
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CanadaMaxxer
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Posts: 1090
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posted September 27, 2003 05:42 PM
TPS damage
The TPS was damaged by an accident in 2002, and has been run since that time with the damaged piece. The engine light is on at all times, but the bike apparently runs fine. I have never seen the bike and have been communicating with the owner via email.
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted September 27, 2003 07:06 PM
Edited By: wannabe on 27 Sep 2003 20:07
quote:
Yea but try this piece of info.... I haven't confirmes it personally yet but heres the info from another site..
Here you go guys!!!!
1st. Go to Ronayers.com
2nd. Click " Fiche "
3rd. Click Kawi
4th. 2000 zx6r
5th. Go to Carburetor
6th. Look at picture on the right side you will see Part # 21176
7th. Part is #21176-1083 $90.64
Spoke to a very good engine builder that used it and it works!! All carbed zx6r's should have it. You can find complete used carbs for around $50-$75.
ITS THE SAME SENSOR!!!!
YEA, PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
Thank you, thank you very much!!!!
Copied and pasted..
 I'm not worthy!!!
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fish_antlers
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posted September 27, 2003 09:45 PM
nice!... now... I can check that myself personally as I have an 00 6r and an 00 12r in my garage.... let me have a cup o coffee and I'll look at the items myself and post the results...
(and I never even thought of looking!)
nice richard!
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wannabe
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posted September 28, 2003 07:20 AM
If you click the link, one of the other guys already verified that.
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zx12richard
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posted September 28, 2003 07:24 AM
Where you at Fish..... You need a coffee maker..LOL
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fish_antlers
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posted September 28, 2003 08:37 AM
BTW.. one interesting question for C Maxxer.. the bike shouldnt run "fine" without the TPS... it's function on the 12 is more crutial than on a carb'd bike....
My greatest concern fer your request is that the TPS isnt exactly a "vulnerable" part, like mirror, or a shift lever, or even body work... I've had the opportunity to see many wrecked ZX12's... most likely more than the average user here, and I have never seen the TPS take a hit...
even on freek's 12, which smoked pretty much every piece of plastic on the bike, the TPS remained intact...
... you'll have to figure out exactly WHY and HOW that TPS got damaged... if it's damaged then what else is toast?
just makes me think that you should think more than twice about buying that bike... unless it was for sale for like 10 bucks er something,.,,
my 2$ werth.
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CanadaMaxxer
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posted September 28, 2003 09:18 AM
I have been getting a suspicious kind of feeling as well. I have been wondering how it is possible for the TPS to be damaged, and yet have the FI work. It is possible that the MAP sensor (Manifold absolute pressure) sensor is sensing the changes in manifold pressure and is interpolating a substitute voltage to the ECU. There are several aftermarket FI systems that don't even use a TPS. It is possible that the ECU has a strategy built in that will allow the bike to run in "limp in" mode with the TPS not working and depending on the ECU it is possible that the bike will run fine. I have never even worked on a ZX12 before, so I can't even speculate, I'm just basing my theory on 15 years of working as an automotive tech. Apparently, the bike had been laid down on it's left side and was written off in 2002. All of the cosmetic damage (fairings, etc) was fixed, but for some reason, the TPS and the engine light was never addressed. The bike was sold to the current owner, who has been riding it with the light on ever since. IF (and that is the big question) the bike was repaired properly (other than the TPS), then this is not a huge deal. I suspect that the TPS was not replaced simply due to the fast that it is only available with the throttle bodies (unless you have access to wise people such as on this forum), and is worth about $1500 Canadian. I will be looking at the bike next saturday, and will make the real assessment at that time. I will not be telling the current owner about the ZX-6 TPS, and hope to use this as a bargaining chip.
On a slightly different topic...what is the method for retrieving data from the ECU? I assume that there are trouble codes, how are they read? Does the engine light flash a sequence of on-off pulses to indicate a failure code number? Does the Kawi dealer have a hand held scan tool for code and data interpretation?
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fish_antlers
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posted September 28, 2003 09:54 AM
How much is the bike? I'm in Vancouver and unless that bike yer looking at is really cheap (like $2000 cdn) take a pass.. you could pick up a good clean one here on the west coast.. I could even find you a brand new 00 still in the crate and I think that's only 9K cdn.
Sounds to me like you should take a pass. . but what do i know?
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CanadaMaxxer
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posted September 28, 2003 10:25 AM
The big bonus to picking up this bike is that the owner and I are supposed to be trading (and him giving me some cash). Otherwise I have to try to sell my Vmax first (which is surprisingly hard to do, considering the modifications and the resulting price I need to get for it), and then pick up a zx12. My idea was that if the bike was clean and fixable, I could trade it at a dealer (who won't even think about touching my Vmax, due to the mods), for an '03 or and '04 (when they're here). I need to speak to the seller ASAP and find out what kind of deal he's willing to offer. If it becomes cheap enough, and barring any other surprises, I will take a good hard look at it.
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zx12richard
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posted September 28, 2003 10:42 AM
00 new in the crate???? Fast Green model????? How much?????
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fish_antlers
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posted September 28, 2003 11:56 AM
I am almost postive that our sponsor bby kawi can get one fer ya richard... when I last checked they were around 9K cdn.
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zx12richard
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posted September 28, 2003 01:14 PM
Pretty tempting since mine turned 25,000 miles today...
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dougmeyer
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posted September 28, 2003 02:42 PM
Heard recently that the TPS is now available as a separate part. Haven't tried to chase one down yet, though.
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tuusinii
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posted September 28, 2003 10:31 PM
Yes You can read the ECU fault codes easilly. Ask if someone can scan and send You the pages from the manual and then You can check why the FI light is on. It's then a lot easier to tell whats wrong and why the FI light is on.
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CanadaMaxxer
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posted September 29, 2003 04:56 AM
That is good news. Here is my email address: don_s1200@hotmail.com. If anyone has the pages regarding diagnostic trouble codes (reading, diagnosing and clearing), either on CD or in a PDF file, or in a paper manual, I would really appreciate a copy.
So I spoke to the current owner and got the real information. It turns out that the light came on after the guy disconnected the TPS to glue up the small crack that was a result of the accident. The light has been on ever since, but the bike runs fine. The owner suspects that the light is on because there is a code set (TPS voltage low...due to being disconnected and then reconnected). He also suspects that the code needs only to be cleared and everything should be ok. I suggested that in the automotive world, cars will often lose their troulbe codes if the battery is disconnected for a few seconds. I told him I didn't know if this would work, but he should try it. I virtually guarantee that he does not have the shop manual for the bike. Will disconnecting the battery work to clear the code? Is there an easy way that I can descride to this guy to get this code cleared? I will rest a lot easier knowing that the light is not on. This bike is a good enough deal that I am willing to put up with the previous damage...providing the engine light is out.
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tuusinii
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posted September 29, 2003 10:39 PM
Don't remember if the codes get out when disconnecting, but there are two kind of codes: all faults and current ones. And to read the codes there is a open wire coming out from the ECU. All You have to do is ground that wire and read the flashes like in most cars ie there are 'long' and 'short' flashes so You get a number like 1 2 or 3 6 etc. I can scan the pages but it'll take a while so maybe someone could help You earlier. But tomorrow I may have time to do it.
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CanadaMaxxer
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posted September 30, 2003 04:43 AM
any help is appreciated...
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ninja12
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posted October 01, 2003 10:12 AM
careful, if the bulb is removed the light is out.
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tuusinii
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posted October 01, 2003 09:53 PM
Sorry been so busy not to remember take the book with me to work but Tomorrow I'll try to remember.
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