magzx12r
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posted September 08, 2003 12:39 PM
 Edited By: magzx12r on 8 Sep 2003 13:40
Front Brake Lever Travel
A few months ago, the lever travel required to engage the front brakes increased (or so it seems). I have installed new pads, bled the brakes several times (using a mityvac pump), and used the zip tie trick. My brakes work very good and are firm once engaged, but the initial travel of the lever still seems greater than what it used to be. What could be the problem? I even took the bike to a couple of shops and they said that my brakes were fine. My bike is the '00 model.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
  
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TurboBlew
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posted September 08, 2003 02:30 PM
You still have the stock rubber lines?? That could be your problem. (they swell like a balloon under heavy braking)
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redelk
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posted September 08, 2003 04:19 PM
They also age and get weaker over time.
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k bryant
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posted September 08, 2003 04:22 PM
You didn't happen to turn the eccentric dial to a different setting?
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted September 08, 2003 07:12 PM
glfer stainless brake lines...best way to go, next on my to get list.....and a good set of pads.....
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necro
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posted September 08, 2003 07:30 PM
Check your brake pads.
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magzx12r
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posted September 09, 2003 05:22 AM
I already have ss lines. I replaced my pads (EBC HH) when this first happened and nothing changed. The dial on the lever was the first thing I checked. It is still on "1". Someone on another board suggested checking my rotors, but I don't feel any vibration when I brake. I will check them anyway. I zip tied my brake lever again last night and will remove it this evening and see what happens.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
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TurboBlew
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posted September 09, 2003 11:20 AM
Perhaps you didnt install the correct amount of crush washers or you have a leak somewhere in the system.
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aliveagain
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posted September 09, 2003 04:52 PM
take the pads out and check all the pistons move
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frEEk
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ummm... yeah
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posted September 09, 2003 06:37 PM
i felt my brakes get more mushy as the bike aged too. pads & rotors are fine, as are the stainless lines, clean fluid etc. they just seemed to soften up with time. a fair bit of play before engagement too, but it's not an issue IMO.
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ScaredyCat
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posted September 10, 2003 02:48 AM
On the same sorta subject as Aliveagain,
sometimes the dust seals can get perished or swollen, they're the thin bits of rubber which fit into the front of the caliper pistons grooves (keeping road crap from getting at the nice shiny sliding bits).
I've had this problem before too on a ZX11, and it was always the damn dust seals - replace them and give them a good smear of coppergrease
after cleaning out the retaining grooves in the caliper body (a soft small dremel wire-brush wheel works well, just be careful not to scratch the main bores). You'll need to split the caliper to do this as well.
What was happening to mine was that the dust seals would push the piston back into the caliper slightly when you let off the brake, so you have to make up the slack again the next time you pulled the lever.
I think that is why zip-tying your brake lever overnight works for a while - it will make the rubber ring settle into the position of the piston being pushed against the disc, and doesn't try to push it back out.
I agree that EBC HH pads are the dog's danglies though - the best I've tried.
Just my 2 cents.
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If it ain't broke, BREAK IT.
 
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted September 10, 2003 03:25 AM
most guys that ride my bike dont like the brakes, I still use the stock set up on the 12. I have a lot of lever travel, and in my opinion good lever feel. My 600 has a much more abrupt brake, in that there isnt really andy feel to it. It just on or off. The 12 I can moderate and the more I squeze the more it stops. By the time the lever is at the bar the bike is on one wheel, and it keeps me from getting into trouble in theose panic stop situations....I do plan on putting some SS dual brake lines on it...I know that is gonna change the way it feels drastically. It will get much firmer. I will have to relearn it I guess.....The only thing I have issues with s far as the stock brakes is the fade.....when on the track or a seeriour run through twisties, they tend to get soft on me, but they never have gotten to the point where I was worried.....
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TurboBlew
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posted September 10, 2003 03:51 AM
HDL... when you have a small dragstrip run off area like we do in Jacksonville.. you'd appreciate how inadequate the stock brake lines are.
Try running from 115mph to 0 in under 40yds.
Of course once you replace the brake lines... then the soft front fork springs are magnified 10 fold...lol.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted September 10, 2003 03:58 AM
its a vicious cycle aint it Steve....new pads and lines...then ya have to get new Fork springs...then ya have to match the rear to the front with a new Ohlins shock. Then ya got to do the rear brake line and pads, if ya use them. Then ya have to get really good tires to be able to get the most out of the other stuff.......atleast that is what I tell Kelly......it dont work, but that is what I tell her.....lol
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magzx12r
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posted September 10, 2003 06:57 AM
Thanks for the info everyone. I will check the dust seals. After bleeding the brakes again, checking rotors, and doing the zip tie trick, I figured it must be something with the calipers. The brake lever does feel tight after the zip tie trick, but eventually, the extra freeplay comes back.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
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dougmeyer
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posted September 10, 2003 07:14 AM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 10 Sep 2003 08:16
Generally, when you have greater than normal lever travel each time you pull, it is because of pad "knockoff". Something, like a slightly warped rotor, incorrect wheel alignment (calipers are not centered), or maybe the dust seals as Scaredy suggests (although I'm not really sure how that would work) is moving the pad back away from the rotor as soon as pressure is released. Assuming you have a well bled system, if you have a solid lever, just long travel- this is what is happening. Changes in the eccentric position won't change travel- only where your hand is when the lever is at rest.
Blatant commercial comment: Try our Performance Friction Carbon Metallic Pads you won't be sorry. (they won't cure the above problem, of course)
Doug
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ScaredyCat
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posted September 12, 2003 03:08 AM
Doug,
I agree it sounds implausible, but I swear that was what happened to mine (although I rode 365 days a year in the highlands of Scotland, which could get a bit cold/wet/salty). That sounded a bit sugestive - sorry. Anyway, I *think* what happened was the dust seals got stuck to the pistons, then as the pads wore, the rubber band tried to pull the pistons back to the position when they got stuck. Just a theory. But cleaning the things out always worked. Might be the answer if your brakes are subjected to a lot of road crap.
I heard from a ZX^ racer that "Carbone Lorraine" pads are the business as well, although I've never tried them. He swears by them.
The dust seal squashy brake thing was worse than the previous worst sponginees I ever had - after I rolled my old bike off the centrestand with a U-lock through the front wheel - crunch. I could actually see the caliper trying to align itself with the disc each time I braked.
It's "pd knockoff" however you put it, could be lots of reasons. By the way, I think braided hoses are great (still have to get some for the 12), but any guesses at the normal pressure that the STOCK hoses are designed for? You'd be surprised.
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dougmeyer
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posted September 12, 2003 07:32 AM
I see now. That explained it a little more clearly. I can see how that could cause the knockoff.
Doug
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