posted July 25, 2003 01:40 AM
Newbie Hey folks, i've just decided to buy a crotch rocket soon and i was wondering if you would give me any advice on what one to buy, i was looking at the ZX12R and i really like the specs on it, but it will also be my first bike so i don't know if this would be a good idea or not (too much balls?) or would i be able to learn to ride on this bike as long as i keep it sane? This isn't the first time i've ridden a bike (dirt bike) but that was a few years ago and i've never ridden a sportbike before. So any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
posted July 25, 2003 02:07 AM
No, it wouldn't be a good bike to start - You can't keep it easy... And even if You could - You can learn much faster on a little bike! A 600 would be max I'd recommend and even then You have lots of more bike You'll ever need! And even if it sound little lame any bike beets a car easilly! IF Yoo're quite good on dirt I think a 600 would be perfect - it isn't too heavy and there is quite a lot of power. But what ever You do be careful.
posted July 25, 2003 05:04 AM
What he said. IMNSHO the perfect bike to learn on would be something like an SV650.... a bike without lots of fairings. Those things are expensive. When you do your mandatory parking lot drops and low speed dumps you wont have to fork out several thousand dollars to fix the damage. Or go with a cheap used 600 whatever and take the fairings off.
But whatever you do, dont buy a 1200 for your first bike. I know its been done, some people on this board have done it and have been OK. BUT you will never learn some of the most important lessons if you are in constant fear of riding over your head. Its very easy for a beginner to get in over their head on a 600, much less one of these beasts. They dont hand out Shakespere to 1st graders... you start with Dick and Jane.
Dont let your first crash be on a $9000 dollar bike that you spent all of your money on and you cant afford good gear. Get that $900 bike and spend some of the rest on GOOD gear... leathers, gloves, boots and a good school.
Most importantly, be safe and have FUN ____________
If you love your bike, set it free. If it comes back to you....you probably highsided.
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
posted July 25, 2003 08:52 AM
well put Glenn...and an SV is a great starter bike.....along with a GS 500, or an EX500....all good starter bikes....BUY GOOD GEAR ! ! ! !
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted July 25, 2003 09:55 AM
i'd say (& i think most would say the same) that the zx6r is still a bit much for a first bike. sv650 or ex500 as suggested above. plus they'r both real cheap! get a zx6r for a second bike, maybe after a year. then wait a couple years or thereabouts to go to a liter bike or a big more like the 12. i went straight from an old 450 highthawk to the 12 after less than a full season, and altho i survived the ordeal thru very judicial use of the throttle, i did dump it once due to inexperience, and i'd say i was jsut plain lucky. definitely woulda got a 600 in between if i did it all over again.
posted July 25, 2003 02:18 PM
I am 5'11" 250 and "Enjoy" riding my wife's 250 Ninja. You may wnat a ex500 to start, but get sonething that does not have a lot of Glass on it so when (Not if) you fall or the bike fall, you do not spend a ton of money! Then buy the 12 after 6 months top 1 year. I have Road raced professionally in the AMA and could finish in the top 10 behing Roberts, Nixon and Duhumal (I would only see them once or twice during the race being lapped) I was in the top 5 privateer) and I cannot ride AT the limit of the bike except when I am Land SPeed racing! There are those here like DOug Meyer that have done it all and they will tell you that except in a straight line, very few can ride this bike at the limit! We are all a little afraid of it! Be smart and learn to ride, then buy the best! Welcome to the board!
We are all a little upset right now because of Zhoo, he was "Beloved" on this board and we are at best down in the dumps over this! Otherwise, 20 to 30 people would have already welcomed you by now!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 25, 2003 07:37 PM
I read what happened, but i did not think it was my place to say anything about Zhooligan, since i did not know him, i thank you all greatly for the help and the welcome, i will listen to your advice and buy an older 500 or 600, probably of the bikes you listed and i WILL buy the gear, if that is not the first thing i do before getting the bike. Thanks again and i'm truly sorry to hear what happened to Zhooligan
posted July 26, 2003 05:33 PM
Very good move! The 12 really is not an easy bike to deal with! Tall in the saddle very easy to wheelie or spin the tire, you can make the back end step out at almost any speed or gear while leaned over, the earlier ones were easy to stall, and just falling over is expensive! Truth be told, I have fallen over with my wife on the bike once, the Bike has fallen over by itself once and cut my wife over the eye when it fell off over while putting it on a shop stand! I have only been riding for 45 years and was national #69 in F-1 AMA Racing! I hope this helps and again, gald you are here! BTW< No matter what you buy, keep in touch so that when you do get the 12, you will not need to buy 2 or 3 exhaust systems and all of the other mistakes we here have already made!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 27, 2003 03:53 AM
hey thanks guys, my brother has an older Kawasaki that he bought from my grandpa, just can't remember what it is at the moment, but also he's up at Interlochen with his Vulcan 1500 Classic at the moment, so i'll ask him about the bike when he gets back, maybe he'll let me ride it till i learn and then i can buy my own bike, which also allows me to give his back and get the gear i need with out buying a bike. Thanks for all the help and i will be back around when i get things squared away.
posted July 28, 2003 06:19 PM
Lol yeah, the only state where if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes, it'll change. I'm over in Lenawee County, my bro is in Monroe, where abouts are you?
posted July 28, 2003 07:21 PM
Second that, muh man
quote:I started racing with an SV650. Never regretted it! Fun fun fun bike.
The little SV is kinda like the girl that you don't mind bringing home to Momma - then if you get her all liquored up she'll take it up the poop chute and like it!
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
posted July 29, 2003 12:33 PM
I am from Gladwin, just north of Midland 25 miles... but I am stationed down in Ft Stewart GA.
Next year I am gonna run the WERA circut and I am going to use the 01 ZX6R. Its been my street bike for 2 years now, so I will be very familure with it on the track...Guess the bike I buy in March, will be for her....dam..lol
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted July 29, 2003 07:18 PM
DCJ - First things first. GEAR... GEAR... RIDING GEAR!
There are two and ONLY TWO kinds of motorcycle riders... Those that have gone down and those that WILL GO DOWN! It will never be a matter of "if", only "when". No one plans a "get off" and even the most experienced of riders will still fall prey to the unexpected and unavoidable.
You can pretty well tell how experienced a rider is by the amount and quality of gear he or she is wearing. Those that wear t-shirts and shorts and claim that is too hot to wear full leathers or even a good jacket and jeans does not realize how "hot" sliding across pavement at 50 mph can be. For me, I much prefer to be covered in sweat then Neosporen and gauze. Just bending your elbow can be almost impossible, when it is covered with a road rash from your shoulder to your wrist.
I've always said that if your all wrapped up in looking cool on your bike, it will be only a matter of time before you'll be "wrapped up" in something else and you won't be lookin' too cool then. The majority of us here don't necessarily take "motorcycles" serious. We take "RIDING motorcycles" serious.
Now if you just want to hang out at the local Sonic and "bench race" with the rest of the posers and squids, talking about who's got the baddest bike... stop reading this post. But since your post seemed to be a sincere request for information, i and the majority of us here are more then willing to share with you our opinion. These opinions are from our combined experiences the would total in not just years, but CENTURIES. Not too shabby for a source of "real world" (not magazine article) knowledge, if you asked me.
There are just a few things most of us feel are an absolute necessity, when it comes to apparel. This apparel is just important to us as gas in our tanks and air in our tires. The thought of riding without our riding gear makes as much sense as riding without gas or air. It's just not possible.
These few things include the following:
1. A GOOD FITTING, QUALITY HELMET
You do not need to have the latest replica helmet from Aria or Shoei. Buy within your budget. A helmet from HJC, KBC or Bell can offer similar protection as the high dollar ones. Often, the biggest differences between the $500 vs. $200 helmets is noise levels and ventilation. Yes, the expensive helmet tend to fit snugger, but when one is just starting out, a $600 Shoei is kind of a waste.
The most important aspect of a helmet is FIT. A helmet that is to tight will become almost painful to wear after just a few short miles of riding. The most common spot of discomfort is right in the middle of your forehead. On the other hand, a helmet that is too loose can actually cause more injury then prevent in the case of an accident.
The rule of thumb for most when trying on helmets is to grab the chin guard and try to move the helmet either up and down or left to right. The the helmet can move without your head moving inside, it's too loose. If it doesn't, then your halfway there. Though you might think you look goofy, try wearing the helmet for a period of time, while looking at other apparel. What might seem like a good fit at first, might not be so good after a period of time.
Most importantly, try on several different brands and models of helmets. Each brand of helmets have their own fit characteristics and what works for your buddy might not for you. For example, I wear a Aria Quantum F. It fits my head perfectly. Yet Aria's top of the line RX-7 would give me a headache.
If you wear eyeglasses, always try on the helmets and then make sure that you'll be able to wear your eyeglasses without them being pushed down your nose or you being unable to get them over your ears. If the helmet fits properly, it will be almost impossible to put your glasses on before you put your helmet on. I found that out when I bought new eyeglasses that had those cool wrap around wires on the ends that go around the back of my ears. I can't get them ends inside my helmet and stick my hand in there to get them to go over my ears. At least not without wrestling with it for 10 minutes. Kinda sucks when everybody is waiting on me as we try to leave a gas stop.
Talk to the dealer about throwing in a helmet with the purchase of the bike. If you are buying a used bike, don't even start looking for a bike until you have already purchased ALL of your riding gear.
2. A GOOD JACKET WITH BODY ARMOR
Joe Rocket, Teknic, Aerostich, Alpinstar, AGV and a slew of other companies make a good jacket. The important things to remember here is that it should have removable internal body armor (pads) and allow freedom of movement while operating the motorcycle. You don't want it to be too loose fitting or it could roll up on you during a slide and not be any protection at all. Other things to look for are some form of ventilation, like zipper openings or perforations (small holes in the leather). It would also be wise to look for a jacket that has a wrap around zipper on the bottom so you can attach leather pants at a later date. Of course it would be nice if you could just go ahead and buy a two piece suit on the front end, but you need to make sure that the pants fit properly. Many companies use European sizes and they are not consistent from company to company. What might be a "52" for one brand, could be a "56" in another. Even there descriptions or conversion to U.S. sizes are not always accurate.
ALWAYS check the fit while at least sitting on a bike, if not actually riding. What might feel fine in the showroom can turn out to be too loose or tight while riding your bike. If you looked at a brand new one piece set of leathers hanging by itself on a rack, you'd notice that the arms are sometime bent and extended as if it was holding a drink tray. The knees would also be sticking outward and the ankles would be pointing back. This is because the suits are cut to have a proper fit while RIDING the bike. Not for going grocery shopping. Walking in a new one piece can be down right uncomfortable, if not just funny looking. Two piece suits are not cut as radically as a one piece, but again, it is the fit WHILE YOU ARE ON THE BIKE that counts.
3. SPORTBIKE ORIENTED GLOVES
Next to boots, it's unbelievable how expensive some as simple as gloves can be. Have an accident with cheap or improper gloves and you'll be reminded of how important your hands are and how much you take even the simplest things you do with them for granted. You don't have to spend $150 for a set of good gloves, but $40 to $50 would not be out of the question. Many of the Manufacturers of quality jackets also make good gloves. Like everything else, fit is very important. Remember, these gloves are not made for throwing snowballs or picking up dimes of the counter. They are made for gripping handlebars and nothing else. So they are cut for that purpose. Look for good protection on the knuckles and especially the palms. A large gauntlet (the part above the wrist) and more the one way to secure the glove onto your hand are also things to look for.
Most gloves will have some form of velcro strap to secure the glove at the wrist, just below the sleeve of the jacket. Make sure that your jacket and gloves work well together. Some jackets sleeves will try to "push" the glove's wrist down and could make the glove loose fitting just above your palms. This can both be uncomfortable and make it harder to grip the handlebars for an extended period of time. It can even cause calluses just below your fingers and above your palms. On the other hand, you still want to have the freedom of movement to grab the front brake and clutch levers as well. I can assure you, as your experience grows, your taste and preference for riding apparel will change. I guess that's why Fish-Antlers says the motorcycling is not a "welfare sport". If you grow to enjoy the sport as much as we do, you'll find you bike taking more of your money then any wife or girlfriend could ever dream of.
4. BOOTS
This is always debatable among riders who do not wear full leathers all the time. A $300 pair of Sidi boots might not be necessary on a short trip around town, but what I'm sure that most will agree with is that flip-flops or Nikes is NOT what you want on your feet when you hop on your bike. On the rare occasions that I am not wearing full leathers, I'll still wear boots. Not necessarily my neon green and white Teknic boots (which do look rather goofy sticking out of a pair of Levi's), but I'll at least wear my Acme boots. The thing about wearing non-motorcycle boots is that their soles are not designed for resting on a footpeg and their "tops" for shifting gears. If you can afford a good boot (some start at less than $100 - cheaper that many Acme cowboy boots), go ahead and get them.
WHY RIDING GEAR IS IMPORTANT
Eventually, the amount of time and distance you ride will grow from a few hours around town to all day rides to areas you have not seen since you parents would drag you kicking and screaming on one of their "vacation road trips". Not that you shouldn't wear your protective gear, but it is important to wear as much of it as possible, especially as the distance from home gets greater. Nothing sucks like being 100 miles from home with a road rash on your leg because you thought you'd be okay just wearing jeans. Even if you bike was ridable after your "minor get-off", with that road rash on your leg, you won't necessarily be able to ride it back home.
I always make this comparison about wearing protective gear. You and I are sitting on the tailgate of a pickup doing 20 mph. I'm wearing full leathers, helmet, gloves and boots. Your wearing cutoffs, a tank top and tennis shoes. Now, both of us HAVE TO JUMP OFF the tailgate. Which would you really rather be wearing? What if the truck was doing 50? It important to remember that no riding gear will protect you from any and all injury. In full gear and even with a spine protector (which I also always wear), you ARE NOT INVINCIBLE! What you are doing by wearing protective gear is greatly reducing the level of potential injury, not eliminating it. After all, I could just as easily break my neck when we jumped of that pick up. On the other hand, you could too. The only difference is at my funeral, the casket will likely be open.
Many riders will compare a good ride to "sex". It's not a bad analogy. So, would you have sex with a total stranger without some form of protection? No matter how good looking she is... you just never know.
FIRST BIKE OPTIONS
To get something like a ZX-12R (or GSXR 1000, R1, etc.) as a first bike would be a bad choice (i.e getting yourself killed), but it will also make it nearly impossible to learn the important fundamentals of operating a motorcycle. The very aspects that make these bike coveted by the magazine readers ("brutal" power, "blinding" speed, "razor-like" handling) are the very things that will prevent you from learning. You'll spend more time, correcting, over correcting and just being plain scared... you'll not be able to pay attention to what is happening around you. You see, not only to you have to pay attention to what you are doing, as a motorcyclist, you also have to pay attention to what everybody AND EVERY "THING" is doing around you. Cars, semis and even family pets all will seem like they are out to get you. No... out to KILL YOU! Let me clue you in on something.... THEY ARE! So, having the "latest" and the "fastest" is not only arrogantly stupid, it is also potentially fatal. Those that claim that they "can handle it" are just fooling themselves.
A motorcycle requires three times as many "human actions" to operate then a automobile. Now if you think you can smoke any and all of your local SCCA drivers though the cones or on the road course, then riding any bike should not be a problem. If your a just tad realistic, odds are that your won't be setting any track records at Road America in a Miata. At least not this week. With this being the case, operating something that is three time more complex and offers dramatically less protection the that Miata, a little forethought need to be put into what kind of bike will be your "first".
Today's 600's are better performing and handling then what was competing in the 750cc Superbike races of less then 10 years ago. In some aspects, less then 5 years ago. They have become more powerful and they handling has become so sensitive to input, they can just as easily hamper you learning curve as much as the hyper and liter class bikes. The advancements in technology is nothing short of amazing. There is another benefit of these improvements in repli-racer sportbikes. That is the fact that a whole new class of "sleeper" bikes have been created that not only have capabilities that exceed the skill levels of more then 75% of the riders out there, but they are also very user friendly and forgiving. An important aspect to remember when dealing with repli-racer sportbike. They are neither.
You did not mention your age, height or weight. These are factors to think about while shopping for a bike. If you just got your drivers license, a EX250 Ninja would be an excellent bike to start out on. You might laugh at a 250, but if you ever rode a Aprilia RS250, Honda NSR250 or a Yamaha TZ250, you would not be laughing, I promise you. If you are a "older" teenager, a Kawasaki EX500 or similar bike might be more in order. Both the EX250 and 500 are inexpensive to buy and maintain, as well as your insurance will be a fraction of what it would be with a CBR or GSXR.
If you are old enough to buy cigarettes or even beer, in my opinion, there is only one bike to consider. A Suzuki SV650. Period. This is a extremely friendly and forgiving bike. It's also one of the best "sleepers" out there. Because it is the one of the "entry level classes" on most club racing circuits, the amount of both performance parts and tuning tricks will rival any GSXR or Ducati. The best part is that the SV650 is almost as inexpensive as mid level bikes like the Katana and ZR7 and equally cheap to insure. Not to mention that for just the cost of replacing a single scratched lower fairing on a ZX-6R could likely be as much as replacing ALL of the plastic on a SV650.
THE BOTTOM LINE
If you want to prove how cool you are, find another sport. If you want to learn to enjoy the life of motorcycling like we do, you'll need to show this "sport" the same respect as you would give to firearms. They can be a lot of fun, but even the slightest bit of irresponsible or thoughtless conduct can result in a equally tragic outcome. It is a absolute must that you take some kind of rider safety course. Almost every town has some group offering a MSF or similar course. Ask any local dealer where you can sign up for one. Also take the test to get a motorcycle endorsement added to your drivers license.
The most important thing to remember is DO NOT just take what I have said here as "gospel". Ask around. Got to a nearby WERA race and when they have the time, talk to some of the riders, their crews and the officials there. All of them "started" riding at some time in their lives. Many of them will be more than happy to share their views (if they are not busy getting ready for the next sprint race). DO NOT seek advice from the group that spends all their time at the local hangout doing nothing but burnouts, wheelies and other such stunts... wearing cut-offs, tank tops and flip-flops.
Just my humble opinion,
Pastor Elk
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted July 30, 2003 06:28 AM
Daaaaaamn thats long.
____________
If you love your bike, set it free. If it comes back to you....you probably highsided.
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted July 30, 2003 07:37 AM
Buy the SV, put the rest of the money a 12 would have cost into gear, ride for a couple years. If you decide you want to keep riding, then maybe step up. But the SV is like a happy puppy, it's fun to wrestle with, and won't get mad and bite ya.
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
posted July 30, 2003 11:53 AM
DAMMMMM Red...lol
Great point....choice of bike is important, I agree that the SV is probably one of the best starter bikes of all time. AN the part about gear being expensive...man o man is that true. With Kelly and I both needing gear, it gets crazy how much I spend on gear. Best I can figure she and I together probably have 4 or 5 grand in gear alone. I use Chatterboxes for both of us, and that adds to it. I consider it a necessity though, I wanna be able to stay in touch with her at all times. She got run off the road at Deals in 01, and she just hit the button on the box and told me to come help her, that was the time I did the second stoppie of my life, turned around to go help her. Leathers for both, good helmets for both, gloves boots....and it doesnt help that they cut my boots and pants off my brother when he was hit up on Wyah Rd. The doc told him that my AGV roadrace boots were the only reason he didnt lose his foot. I cant stress the importance of gear, unfortunately some people have to find out the hard way....dont be one of them.....just my opinions and expierences...Jim
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
All times are America/Va [ This thread is 2 pages long: 12Next» ]
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted July 25, 2003 01:40 AM
posted July 25, 2003 02:07 AM
posted July 28, 2003 07:21 PM
