k bryant
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posted July 14, 2003 06:59 PM
Dyno tests on '03 model (long post)
Enjoy the site very much and a lot of the info posted by others is really interesting.
Had my '03 model since November. 4800 miles. Broken in by the book. Mostly do the knee dragin thing on Ortega Hwy (SoCal), but venture out to California Speedway on it and other bikes that happen to be in the stable. But the 12 is my personal favorite, mostly because people don't expect it to go fast around corners. For arguments sake, I've ridden, raced and flogged just about every other Japanese Sportbike over the last 20 years or so. Including lots of roadracers in-between.
Anyway, lot's of bolt on mods. Will post pics and go through mods on another post as I prepare it for a magazine. Basis of the story will be "a 530 lb (full wet) monster that actually goes around corners with the best of them, as long as you respect her." And just fyi, that 530 lbs was with a lot of stuff taken off for track days. Man, she is a porker!
Been dyno testing over the last 4 weeks with interesting results. I'll scan the graphs after a few more tests and post them. I use a Muzzy Stainless full system (perfect fit), utilizing a Jardine/HRC muffler built to Muzzy specs (18" Carbon Can, 2.25" core). I also use Ti end caps, ti perf core, and silent sport packing. Also tried with 21" can, which was much quieter and actually made 2/10's more hp. But the 18" can looks and sounds better, and is lighter. I use a PC111r with Muzzy map 204-311r-02c. I use stock air filters, clean and very dry. Doug Meyer from Muzzy is an absolute awesome guy to deal with. I've known Doug probably longer than most. Even though we are competitors, I can't think of one single thing to fry him on. He's good people and Muzzy products are excellent. Gotta give the props when it's earned. Actually got the aluminum fans, steering dampner kit (incredible workmanship and perfect instructions), and carbon brake pads as well.
Bike starts right up just like stock. No enricher needed. Unlike others, I love the "lope" it makes idling @1000 - 1200rpm. Sounds like a real hotrod. Has the classic lean spot around 2500 rpm. But no big deal as it doesn't bother me. Just adapt to it.
At California Speedway, she shows 174 mph in 5th @ close to 11k rpm. The stock brakes last less than 3 laps before fading dangerously. Will try the carbon pads next run. I have an area near home that has a 4% downhill grade for about a mile or so and slight tailwind most of the time. You can come into it @ about 140 mph. Have bumped into the speed limiter consistently in 6th. I would estimate it would go another 10 mph, as it pulled right up hard against it fairly quickly.
Anyway, results on the dyno (Dynojet) as follows:
Stock, pump gas - 158.8 hp, 90.9 tq
Muzzy, pump gas, PC111r unhooked - 165.7 hp, 91.6 tq
Muzzy, pump gas, PC111r connected - 167.4 hp, 94.2 tq
Muzzy, VP Ultimate 4 gas, PC111r - 170.6 hp, 94.5 tq
Muzzy, VP MR9 gas, PC111r - 174.8 hp, 95.6
Obviously the fuel difference is incredible. Mark Hall, @ VP sent some to me to test. Fuel curve is good with all of them (smells bitchin too!) Runs only slightly leaner (in the 12.6 - 12.8 range, 6k rpm & up) with the VP fuel(s). To be able to pickup these kinds of increases, while staying outside the engine, really surprised me. Just changing the fuel alone, we picked up over 3 hp on one, and over 7 on the other. VP Ultimate 4 runs about $8 per gallon. MR9 is the latest AMA legal fuel, but it's kinda pricey (I believe around $25 per gallon). Also have MR1 to test yet. Keep in mind that these are leaded and highly oxgenated fuels and should not be run with the stock cat and are not "highway" legal. You can see more detailed spec info on the www.vpracingfuels.com site.
The most notable things were that on the stocker, there is no reason to ever rev past 10k rpm. It completely signs off (so save your engine a little grief). But the last test with the VP MR9 fuel ran right up to the rev limiter (approx. 12k rpm) and kept making power! Pretty interesting! All the power curves were very similar, they just kept increasing in the same areas.
kb
   
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frEEk
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posted July 14, 2003 07:25 PM
very interesting info. thx! that's the first time i'v read such good power increase from fuel alone.
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redelk
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posted July 14, 2003 09:38 PM
When looking at the stock numbers, it seemed like it was in line with what most folks have be seeing on their "stock" runs. The run with the pipe an no PCIIIR looked about right, but maybe kinda low. Then when the PCIIIR was hooked up, the HP numbers look WAY LOW (the torque is fairly close)! At least for a DJ250.
Were these runs done on a DJ250 or some other type of dyno? Are these SAE corrected? Was the smoothing set at "3" or something different? Going on the same scale of increase due to the fuels, if I ran Ultimate 4, I'd be putting out 185.76 hp/98.24 tq and 190.34 hp/99.39 with MR9.
Usually, with just a pipe, PCIIIR and filters high 170's to low 180's are fairly common. About the best nubers I've seen on filters alone is increase of 3.5 in both hp and torque. Is there any reason why your numbers are lower?
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entropy
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posted July 15, 2003 12:03 AM
KBryant:
"Stock, pump gas - 158.8 hp, 90.9 tq
Muzzy, pump gas, PC111r unhooked - 165.7 hp, 91.6 tq
Muzzy, pump gas, PC111r connected - 167.4 hp, 94.2 tq"
For comparison, when my bike had stock motor/Akro, my #'s were essentially identical to yrs. I used a DJ150 (occasional tests) and a DJ250(complete mapping), both SAE. My Nutec SP4/5 #'s were a couple of hp higher than yr VPMR9.
GREAT post!
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frEEk
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posted July 15, 2003 01:08 AM
oh yeah, re the 21" pipe, just how much quieter was it? and i assuem weight increase was minimal? that's a route i'd be interested in. i like me a quite bike.
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k bryant
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posted July 15, 2003 06:23 AM
Tests were done on a model 150 Dynojet. I have not made any adjustments or changes to the map that the PC3 came with from Muzzy. Forgot to mention, also installed the Muzzy Reed Plate Blockoffs. No hp difference, but seems to have eliminated the backfire on decel (also got rid of a ton of hoses & stuff). Don't know what to say about the numbers being high or low. Runs great, gets 34 mph, fans almost never turn on in traffic (use Redline Water Wetter), no complaints. The dyno doesn't lie. It is what it is and it's all good. Will do more tests shortly and get more feedback from my dyno operator. These are all baselines established.
The 21" muffler was 4dbA quieter using the static 20" test. It is very noticeable. I switch them out often. When I'm riding down to the beach or know there potentially will be more cops around, I use the 21". Track days and Sunday morning knee draggin sessions get the 18" muffler. Weight increase was minimal. For referance, every 6 db is twice as loud or quiet.
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K Bryant
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posted July 15, 2003 10:38 AM
redelk - Left off a few answers to your questions; It was SAE corrected. I always have the smoothing set on "3". If we wanted to cheat a little, we'd go to "1" for another horsepower or so on the spikes, but 3 is what we run as standard. I would love to have the numbers you show, but the fact is, I don't.
Your findings on the filter improvement is interesting. I've got some BMC filters coming and will test. But I've been told that the difference on changing the filters is negligible at best. Hopefully we'll see the improvements that you've noted.
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frEEk
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posted July 15, 2003 11:28 AM
my understanding is that the 150 model tends to read low no?
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zxlnt
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posted July 15, 2003 12:13 PM
The dj150 here in Topeka read low too. My bike stock 153.2 and with pipe/filters 166.7 Same set up on DJ250 was 173.8 horsepower no changes.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 15, 2003 12:27 PM
KB, the BMC filters will make more HP vs stock filters. Typically 3-5 HP. I havent seen a 12r yet that didnt make more power from cotton filters.
I've heard several people at gatherings say that aftermarket air filters DONT make more power in the zx12r. I think this is an assumption made by people because of the zx-9r. The 98/99 zx9r doesnt like the cotton filter on the dyno. They often LOOSE power for some reason. It could be because of the fuel bowl pressurization system that all carb ram air bikes have to have. I dont know thou. I've seen 2 zx9's loose power on the dyno with a K&N filter.
But it is not the case on the zx12r.
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redelk
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posted July 15, 2003 12:30 PM
I need to qualify my statement about "filter gains". The numbers I stated are from a test of "fabricated" filters, not K&N or BMC. Since K&N didn't make a filter for the 12R for almost a year after the bike was introduced, I had a mechanic friend make a set for me.
Basically, he knocked out the "guts" of the OEM filters and glued in two layers of UNI prefilter foam into each of the open frames. The comparison test between the stock and fabricated filters was done using the same completely stock '00 12R on a DJ250. The gains of 3.5 HP and a little over 3 ft/lbs are some of the highest I have seen, but I have hear of similar gains from K&N's and BMC race filters. I would think that if these filters were put in a 12R that had other modifications, the gains might not be as substantial. Of course, I don't have a clue if this is a factor or not, but it's possible, I guess.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
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frEEk
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posted July 15, 2003 01:02 PM
i assume those power increases with the the race filters & after retuning correct redelk? dman, but those filters are pricey.
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redelk
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posted July 15, 2003 08:38 PM
I'm not sure I understand your question, frEEk.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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frEEk
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posted July 15, 2003 11:47 PM
sorry, i meant the power increases u usaully see of around 3hp are with teh BMC race filters, not with their street version. they seem to suggest street version is just as restrictive as stock.
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redelk
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posted July 16, 2003 06:04 AM
OH! I would not know. I've just read about most folks have been buying the "race" version and I have heard little to nothing about the "stock" version. The biggest problem is that excluding The Motorhead doing the "test" comparing just filters, the majority of folks are not doing runs comparing stock vs. aftermarket filters on a "stock" bike.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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k bryant
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posted July 16, 2003 06:18 AM
The BMC filters I have coming from Yosh are the Race Version. I'll install and put them on the pump within the next week or two. I'll keep the tests consistent with where I'm at now with the bike. I'll simply bolt in, run with MR9 fuel, and monitor the fuel curve. We'll go from there. Should take the "myth" about what the filters do or don't do away. Let you know soon.
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EastBayDave
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posted July 16, 2003 04:30 PM
I heard you were terrorizing Ortega on the Big Ninja Kerry, what ever happened to your ZRX? Still in the stable or did you get rid of it? Donno if you remember me but I was about half a lap behind you most of the time in the AFM events...(this is a fast (ama/afm) dude folks- one of the best riders out of CA couple'a decades ago!)
I'll never forget some of the battles you had with lil' Rich, Bruce H., Denny, Donny, etc. Was some good racin'...
Hey, I dug up a pic of the 222 white/red Z-bike a few months back & was thinking of you. Pic's pretty mashed (been kicking around the toolbox), but I'll scan it in if you want another pic.  Still riding my 99' Rex & the 00' ZX12r fyi...
Let us know how the Muzzys carbon pads work, I was about to buy a set but was waiting for a couple road tests (Doug already likes them...) Nice to see you back on the boards. Still at wb?
Dave
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k bryant
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posted July 16, 2003 05:41 PM
Sure I remember you Dave. Thought that was you! Z-Rex just too slow, but loved it anyway. Thanx for the props. Still going fast @ track days (with the guys from KMC), mx and Bryant hwy, oops, Ortega hwy. Will stay in touch on the board with stuff.
Left WB after 9 years in late '01. Took VP position at Jardine to get back to RR roots. 11 of my staff members came with me. Working a lot with Team Honda developing exhaust. Feels like SuperTrapp/Kerker hay days (was there 13 years!)! Keep on the gas!
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