Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 09, 2003 09:22 PM
Hard Starting, slow cranking when hot
I thought I had solved my Hard Starting, slow cranking when hot problem w/my stroker but this weekend I was hard on the throttle and RPMS on the back roads while riding w/some friends. My buddy lost it on a hard corner, and ended up in a grassy field. Of course, I immediately stopped, and ran to help. He was ok, his ego was damaged more than anything, but I had to wait 1/2 hour for my bike to cool down before it would crank. I've got a brand new stock replacement Interstate Battery. What else can I do ? What makes a hot engine harder to crank? I know heat increases electrical resistance, maybe my starter is the culprit ?
Thanks,
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
  
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MarkZX12RKX500
Expert Class
Posts: 159
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posted July 09, 2003 10:10 PM
 Edited By: MarkZX12RKX500 on 9 Jul 2003 23:13
Ouch!, U ask a dealer about it not starting it sounds like the starter if it is not the battery or a bad connection.
It seem's to me I had a car that did this and it was the starter sucking to hard on the battery.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 09, 2003 10:57 PM
Megabyte,
I have a 4.6mm stroker and have also been down the hard starting road. One thing that did help is a new starter. The area on the armature where the brushes sit was scored and fulla mung. I prolly could of just cleaned it up, but I went with a new starter and it helped.
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted July 10, 2003 02:07 PM
Guys running a Power Commander?
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 10, 2003 02:20 PM
quote:
Guys running a Power Commander?
Yes, Grrr
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted July 10, 2003 02:25 PM
I had almost the same issue. Unplug PC, and try it out. Might need to send off PC.
See my thread in the library.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=9&TID=7545&set_time=1054245396
j
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted July 10, 2003 02:25 PM
Try taking out some (or all the) timing in the first 3 cells in the 0% throttle column.
Also keep the throttle cracked slightly when cranking. This works well on Busas too. 
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Mika14R
Novice Class
Posts: 50
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posted July 10, 2003 02:45 PM
As Entropy told, starter motor is big problem with stroker/big block.
I also have put new starter because old did not turn engine when hot.
With new motor no problem.
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 10, 2003 02:52 PM
yep, That hit the nail on the head. Ever think of going to a Yosh system ?
quote:
I had almost the same issue. Unplug PC, and try it out. Might need to send off PC.
See my thread in the library.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=9&TID=7545&set_time=1054245396
j
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted July 10, 2003 04:26 PM
Would all those that had to replace starter,please post how long the original lasted with the stroker.thanx
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Mika14R
Novice Class
Posts: 50
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posted July 10, 2003 04:45 PM
Edited By: Mika14R on 10 Jul 2003 17:49
quote:
Would all those that had to replace starter,please post how long the original lasted with the stroker.thanx
1 year standard, 1 year big bore, 1 year stroked, (year means 7 months driving season here)and this spring impossible to get hot engine turn with old starter. Battery was new, and I have Motec, so it was not PC problem.
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 10, 2003 06:42 PM
For what it's worth, disconnecting one of the headlights seems to help
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted July 11, 2003 07:14 AM
Need more battery sounds like.
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RED NINJAS RULE!!
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 11, 2003 09:31 AM
quote:
Need more battery sounds like.
That's what I'm thinking, but I just had a new Interstate battery installed ?
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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Doctor Jack
Novice Class
Posts: 31
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posted July 11, 2003 10:01 AM
Thiers several things you could do.......
First....Dont buy a new starter. Take the armature out of the starter and take it down to your local starter shop and have them turn the armature on a lathe. The comutator on the amature gets concave and the brushes dont get enough contact to get the amps needed to the armature. After it has been turned then clean out ant shorts between them. Put a new set of brushes in and a lite dab of grease on the bushings. This will bring a starter back to life instead of wasting money on a new starter. (if you cant handle this yourself. Buy a set of brushes and take the starter and brushes to your local starter shop and tell them to turn it and put the brusheds in)
Now take all that money you were going to waste and buy A heavyer positive ,negative and starter cable.
Second.....For a little more guice to the starter you can put a switch on the fuse that runs all running lights. Dont worrie with the headlight since it doesnt come on till the headlight relay see's voltage from one phase of the altanator. Thats why the headlight doesnt come on till you crank the bike, But if you kill the motor with the handle bar switch then it will stay on and you will have to turn the key off and then back on to make it go out.......
Third........I would look at the first three cells in the map like the other guy said except I would put negative values in since those cells are in the 500 rpm range and will only be used for cranking. You might also play with making the fuel map richer in that area too. I havnt looked at the other guys post to see what he did to fix it so you might want to check it out too.
Cant really say if this will help or not. I have the stock crank, But I used to have a 5mm stroked zx11 in a dwarf car. (God I love kawachans old 12 in their now, What a differance in the torqe curve) Anyways thats what I would do before I spent all that money on a starter, But I would spend the saved money on beer also.............to each his own
Good luck
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 11, 2003 02:07 PM
Doctor Jack,
Thanks for all the great input, and for taking the time to help. I'll let you know how it goes. Think I'll begin with the starter and the heavier cables. Actually, the heavier cables is the best idea I've heard yet! Ever try starting a 6 volt system using 12 volt cables, it don't work, believe me I've been there....
quote:
Thiers several things you could do.......
First....Dont buy a new starter. Take the armature out of the starter and take it down to your local starter shop and have them turn the armature on a lathe. The comutator on the amature gets concave and the brushes dont get enough contact to get the amps needed to the armature. After it has been turned then clean out ant shorts between them. Put a new set of brushes in and a lite dab of grease on the bushings. This will bring a starter back to life instead of wasting money on a new starter. (if you cant handle this yourself. Buy a set of brushes and take the starter and brushes to your local starter shop and tell them to turn it and put the brusheds in)
Now take all that money you were going to waste and buy A heavyer positive ,negative and starter cable.
Second.....For a little more guice to the starter you can put a switch on the fuse that runs all running lights. Dont worrie with the headlight since it doesnt come on till the headlight relay see's voltage from one phase of the altanator. Thats why the headlight doesnt come on till you crank the bike, But if you kill the motor with the handle bar switch then it will stay on and you will have to turn the key off and then back on to make it go out.......
Third........I would look at the first three cells in the map like the other guy said except I would put negative values in since those cells are in the 500 rpm range and will only be used for cranking. You might also play with making the fuel map richer in that area too. I havnt looked at the other guys post to see what he did to fix it so you might want to check it out too.
Cant really say if this will help or not. I have the stock crank, But I used to have a 5mm stroked zx11 in a dwarf car. (God I love kawachans old 12 in their now, What a differance in the torqe curve) Anyways thats what I would do before I spent all that money on a starter, But I would spend the saved money on beer also.............to each his own
Good luck
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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Doctor Jack
Novice Class
Posts: 31
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posted July 11, 2003 11:22 PM
You are 100% correct........
It all boils down to wattage. If you have a 12 volt system and a 6 volt system......Both with a 2300 watt starter......The wires for the bat and starter will be smaller on the 12 volt system........Volts times amps equals wattage.
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