posted June 30, 2003 01:00 PM
Has anyone tried ME 880 Marathons ? I'm thinking about putting on a pair for a long ride (about 4000 miles in 4 days) in July. I'm currently riding 020's but think that maybe they wouldn't last the 4 000 miles of 'intense' riding. I'm not looking for sticky, looking for long life.
The Metzeler ME 880 Marathon comes in 210/50x17 or 170/60x17. I'm sure a 210 would fit on a '00 12R right ?
posted June 30, 2003 01:13 PM
Stick with the Bridgestones 010s, 020s or Metzlers sportecs. Just run the pressures alittle higher (~38psi) and theyll last a good while.
I dont even think the ME880s are speed rated for the ZX12.
My Pirelli's looked new after 1300 miles of 90mph + traveling with an extra 30lbs on back.
posted June 30, 2003 09:26 PM
Edited By: tuusinii on 30 Jun 2003 22:30
Michelin Pilot Sport HPX - got 10 000km(=6250miles) out of them and mostly riding tripple digit speeds and tigtht alpine roads on my 'Tour de Europe'. I definetely vote for them. And also Avon does a sport touring tire in 200/50ZR 17 haven't allthoug tired them yet - they are waiting to get the last out of the Pilots but by the end of the summer I'll tell You how they hold...
And yes use the recommended tire pressures which is 2,9bar(42PSI) - the tires last longer that way and there isn't much difference in the grip.
The above is from Metzeler website. The speed ratings all are (except one) "V" or "H" which is not suitable for a sportbike. However, the 210 tire have a "W" speed rating which is higher that the usual "Z" we all use. Maybe this 210 tire could be a go on a sportbike? But I agree those are mainly designed for cruisers so I would not be the first one to try them...
Are you telling me that you got 10 000 km out of one rear Michelin Pilot Sport HPX ? at mostly triple digit speeds ?
That's gotta be a record for tire longevity on this bike. Most of my trip will be on un-tight North American roads, most of which will be chip-sealed, so much harder on the center of the tread than the sides. I'll also be carrying about 70 lbs over the rear seat
My question to you is do you get high mileage out of other tires as well, or is the HPX that much more durable ?
posted July 01, 2003 09:43 PM
Edited By: tuusinii on 1 Jul 2003 22:43
Well the HPX ranks to the very top in my mileage. The first 207 were completely worn in 4000km(=2500miles), the 010 were useless in 6000km(=3750miles) and also one set of Pirellis MTR something were also useless after 6000km. But the HPX:s really wore out that good. Most of the 10k I rode on my 8200km(5150miles) trip and most of it was on highway and the speeds were mostly in 150-200kph(=94-125MPH) but those tires also handled couple of highspeedruns on German autobahn with best of them got 315kph(=197mph) on the speedo! The second set of HPX didn't get that much mileage, 8000km(=5000miles) but that was probably because most of that was ridden two up. Others in this board have said also they tried Pilot Sports but have gotten only low mileage, but I don't about them but if You want the mileage make sure You have the HPX version because the normal is much softer and I've seen them wore out in 4000km(=2500miles) on R6. But all in all I think the HPX is best available sport (touring) tire currently avaivable in 200/50. It's also good in the twisty stuff, because its somewhat more triangular than 010 for example. Here is still the link to that trip with the HPX and 8271km(=5140miles). http://www.hut.fi/~tuusinii/ematka.html
And it was also good to me to see those photos again, because I'm currently waiting for next road trip by the end of the summer - now I'm stucked with work :-(
posted July 02, 2003 04:04 AM
Thanks for everyone's input, especially Tuusinii. I also had about 4000 km to my original 207's and I'd usually get 5 - 6 000 km on 010's, so our riding style must be similar. I think I'll order a set of HPX's for the trip. Hope they hold !
Had a look at the Dunlop web site. My personal experience whenever I tried some Dunlops was that I couldn't wait to change to something else, so I'm a bit sceptical of them.
posted July 02, 2003 04:41 AM
NO no swft I meant tripple digit to You (funny) American miles :-) And as I said the speed were in 150-200kph = 94-125MPH. And the speed rose toward the south of Europe with diminishing cops... Usually in Germany without limit or in France, Spain, Italy with minimal speedcontrol I cruise on 180kph=112MPH. Here in Finland I drive usually something like 140-150kph=87-94MPH because of the police and here You lose Your license if You get caught 30kph(=19MPH) over the speedlimit :-( But really my experiences with HPX have been very good. I've also ridden 1000km(640miles) in one day in heavy rain and never slipped...
posted July 04, 2003 03:52 PM
Geez, got the Pilot Sport XPX's today. I'm impressed with the lack of tread when new. rear has 5.5 mm tread depth and front has 3.5 mm. That's less than 020's... Hope the rubber compound is harder !
posted July 06, 2003 12:24 PM
Edited By: Scooter on 6 Jul 2003 13:27
Just put on a set of the new Avon AV45/46's. 1500 mi and no signs of wear. discountmotorcycletire.com
EDIT:
My last set was M-1 Sportec's, Loved 'em but the interstate ate 'em up. Got another set sittin on the shelf for after "touring" season.
____________
"Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional."
posted July 07, 2003 01:21 AM
While 1 500 miles without signs of wear is pretty impressive, it's the total mileage on a rear that will be the interesting figure. Please keep us posted on what kind of total mileage you get on them
posted July 29, 2003 04:15 AM
Michelin Pilot HPX They dind't last anywhere 10 000 km. More like 4500 km in 3 days. For those interested, here's the detailed report.
BBG 3000
Among all the other Long Distance bikes over there in the parking lot of Hotel Matagami, there's none that I'd prefer over this one. My ZX-12R was behaving beautifully on the road to Radisson. For those who aren't familiar, the road from Matagami, Quebec to Radisson, at James Bay is an isolated 620 km long stretch of unpoliced roller-coaster. The bikes in the parking lot of Hotel Matagami belonged to the fine folks who came up to the "ride-to-eat" organised by Mark Daub, Blackfly 1600 veteran and winner. This was to be the first Blackfly reunion / BBQ and it turned out to be a great success, with about 25 bikes and maybe 30 riders showing up. We all had a great time on Saturday night and I was set to embark on my most 'challenging' ride to date, the BunBurner Gold 3000 on Sunday. For those who aren't familiar, the BBG3000 consists of 1500 miles (2418 km) in 24 hours, followed by another 1500 miles during the next 24 hours.
On Saturday evening I asked those who had gone to Radisson how the road was. Is it really un-policed?
- "There are some pretty bad frost heaves" says one
- "The road is self-policing" says another
- "I lost a hard saddlebag on my Concours today" says a third, "Skidded down the road and wore out in a few spots".
Hmmm...
I had been planning this ride for about 4 months, and in my usual planning fashion, all the I's were dotted and all the T's were crossed. I had a detailed route plan that had me leaving Matagami, up to James Bay (Radisson), then down to Thunder Bay at the West shore of Lake Superior where I planned to sleep for 3 hours, then get heading back home in Fredericton New Brunswick during the second day. It would be difficult, but I figured I could make good time going up to Radisson (remember - no police) and accumulate a nice little buffer to compensate for unscheduled 'events'. I had done research to make sure I'd have gas available every 420 km or so, even at night. With the fuel cell mounted on my bike, I usually hit reserve at around 470 km and am good till about 510 km until I have to walk or hitch-hike. Don't ask me how I know this...
My main concern going into this ride was my rear tire. Earlier in the year, another Long Distance ZX-12R rider attempted the BBG3000 while participating in the Blister 3000 in the southern US. He had to quit after the first 1500 miles because his tire was too worn to continue. I did a fair bit of research to find the perfect tire for this ride. Eventually I settled on a Michelin Pilot Sport HPX, a tire supposedly designed for 'Hyperbikes' a.k.a. the Kawasaki ZX-12R and Suzuki Hayabusa. One fellow from Finland on the ZX-12R discussion board said he got 10 000 km out of one while touring Europe at mostly "triple digit" speeds. He also told me he usually gets 7 000 km out of Bridgestone 020's, which is about what I get out of them, so I figured this would be a good choice and trusted his advice.
My eyebrows rose a bit when I got the tires. The rear had only 5.5 mm of tread when new! Well I thought, the rubber must be very hard to last that long on so little tread. There's an old adage on the IronButt website that says something about not trying anything new on the bike when starting out on a difficult ride. When I left home the tires still had their little dibs on them. Some might get an idea about where this story is going...
3:30 AM Sunday morning. My alarm clock is set to go off at 4:20 and the Screaming Meanie is going off at 4:30. I turn both alarms off as I know it is useless to try to sleep again. Been there, done that. I get up and watch the weather channel. It says cloudy for the morning with 10 % chance of showers with accumulations "less than 1 mm". Not bad I thought. Take shower, put a dab of sunscreen on my nose, finish up packing and down the stairs I go.
Yves Breault was standing outside the hotel door. That's funny I thought, he was supposed to leave an hour before me. He was going to attempt a BBG1500 by going up to James Bay then heading East instead of West to finish on the Upper North Shore of the St-Lawrence River somewhere. It was raining heavily.
"It's not as bad as it was half an hour ago" he says. "A while ago you couldn't even see the tower across the street". The glass is definitely half full for Yves. Nonetheless, he decided to wait it out as he knows that riding in the fog and rain at night is not a good way to travel. I too decide to delay the departure. I went back up to my room and surprisingly I slept for about 45 minutes. Woke up at 6:00 AM for the updated weather forecast and it was still calling for less than 1 mm of precipitation for the morning. I wonder at what time the morning begins...
Head down for breakfast where there are a few of the LD guys around. We talk about my ride. There are not many people I can talk to regarding this sort of thing, not many people understand and I've given up trying to explain. Family and friends close to me were told about where I was going but not really how long I expected it to take me. "A few days" I would say. 7:00 AM, still raining hard but it's lighter out. I decide to go for it. I see Yves' bike is still there.
7:14 is my official start time, as indicated on my cash register receipt. I had filled up both gas tanks the night before so I bought some breath mints with my debit card to get a timed receipt. On the bike I go.
With the hard rain there were significant puddles on the road leading up to Radisson. The tire tracks were full of water and I had to navigate on the 3-foot wide strip between them. I was riding like a real squid, real slow in the corners then going at it in the straights. About 200 km into the ride, there was less accumulation of water on the road and I was able to use my entire lane. It was at this time that I thought that I had the perfect bike for the job. I could ride fast over bumps that would upset a lesser bike and I had power to burn (burn up the rear tire that is).
There is a solitary gas station in those 620 km and it is at route marker 381 km. I hit reserve at 360 km which was a personal worst for me. Needless to say, I managed to do some good time and accumulate significant 'buffer' despite the wet weather. As I was gassing up, I glanced over at the rear tire. My heart sunk. There was noticeable tread loss and the sides of the tire were accumulating little rolled-up bits of rubber, a sign of hard wear. Crap. I'll have to tame it down a notch.
I guess the notch wasn't big enough. By the time I got up to Radisson, the wear was even more noticeable. I figured there was a chance the tire wouldn't last the full 3000 miles.
I knew that if I needed another tire it would need to be during the second 24-hour period to be able to complete the ride. First of all, this was Sunday, where no bike shops were open. Second, I wasn't going to hit big cities until Thunder Bay. I thought I could always phone a buddy in Fredericton early on Monday Morning and he could make arrangements for a tire waiting for me in Sault Ste-Marie. That would work. If they are able to take me in right away, I figured it would cost me about an hour. That's what buffers were for.
I arrived back in Matagami at 3:51 PM, having covered 1 266 km in 8 hours 37 minutes. Looking at the tire with a lump in my throat confirmed what I was suspecting. There was about 1.5 mm of tread left, nowhere close enough to get me to Thunder Bay, which was still about 1 200 km away. In the name of safety and with a heavy heart I called it quits. I decided against doing the route in 3 days for a Saddlesore 3000 because frankly, that ride didn't mean that much to me. With my tail between my legs I headed back towards home, which was 1 700 km away, but the path was dotted with bike-shop-bearing cities every 200 km or so. That night I made it to Val D'Or, about 200 km away where I took a hotel. I was very angry at the bike for letting me down. The tire was down to about 1 mm of tread. The bike would have to go. No wonder LD riders gravitate towards Gold Wings, BMW's and other sport touring bikes I thought. My choice of bike bit me in the behind. What was I thinking?
On Monday I left Val D'Or and decided to ride very slowly and smoothly to see how far down the road I could nurse this tire.
Mont Laurier, 1 mm of tread left. That's what I'll do, get all the LD bits off the bike, bring it back up to stock then sell it. Put that money towards a more proper ride.
Montreal 1 mm of tread left. What bike should I get? BMW makes nice ones, or maybe an ST 1300? I want a bike that can let me stand on the pegs while riding because it's a great way to stretch without wasting valuable time. I don't think you can stand on a GoldWing.
Quebec City 1 mm of tread left. I'm riding at maybe 120 to 130 km/h and cars are passing me. Imagine that, being passed by cars! Me! I start playing with the Throttlemeister and learn that I can let go of the bars and steer the bike around by leaning. I went maybe half an hour without touching the bars. This is fun.
Rivière-du-Loup 1 mm of tread left. I'm up to about 900 km today and the remaining tread hasn't changed. Also, I'm getting the best mileage I've ever seen; hit reserve at 565 km, by far a personal best, meaning that I could go 600 before being stranded. Wow!
Edmundston 1 mm of tread left. The weather is very nice. I see the sun for the first time during the whole trip. I'm enjoying riding at this pace. It is around here that it dawns on me. This is what separates my bike from other LD bikes. Power. BMW's have what, maybe 120 HP? I've got significantly more than that. If I don't use all that extra power, my bike should go as far as the next one. Maybe I can install a throttle limiter like on the kiddie bikes...
Home 1 mm of tread left. I managed to ride 1 500 km without any noticeable difference in tire wear. This was quite a dramatic change from my initial 1 200 km which transformed my like-new tire to a worn-out one. I decided that I like my bike after all. It's comfortable, I can sit on it all day, I can stand up on the pegs to stretch, it handles well and if I am reasonable with my right hand it should have a range similar to anything out there. I love my ZX-12R.
This was my biggest LD lesson learned and the biggest price I've had to pay: "Ride like an idiot and you won't make it."
posted July 29, 2003 05:07 AM
Sorry to hear that Your plans got destroyed by the tire - maybe it was the extreme acceleration that ate Your reartire. My mileage was probably better because even if I'm riding 200kph on German autobahn I really don't need to accelerate very often. And I'm not sure if You misunderstood but I haven't tired the Bridgestone 020 on my ZX only 010 and they lasted that mentioned 6000km(=3750miles). But anyway I'm now experimenting the Avon 45/46's and so far it's all right. They turn quite nicely and at least they have much more thread than other 200'. When new it was something like 6.7mm. I still have 3 weeks before my holiday so after 5 weeks You should have a report how they hold and wear.
posted July 29, 2003 05:09 AM
And also one consideration: what tirepressures You used? And because You have that extra tank right over the reartire You should maybe use even more than recommended? Just a thougt...
posted July 29, 2003 05:58 AM
I ran it at 42 PSI. The road was wet and the temperature was a cold 9 to 10 degrees celcius from beginning to end. I figured the cold and wet pavement would make the tire last longer, but I imagine I was having some small wheel spin quite often. It's true that there was more weight above the rear tire but I'm scared to go beyond the max rating.
I've put in an order for Avon's 45/46, should get here in 2 to 3 days. In the meantime, the shop is putting an old 020 that I had laying around. Probably going to go for a little SaddleSore 1000 tomorrow around the Cabot Trail.
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted July 30, 2003 08:06 AM
I've got 8000 miles on my BT020's on my ZZR1200. Although the tread still looks fine, there's distinct cupping on the front tire. IMHO, I don't think that the front tire is up to the extra mass of the ZZR, compared to a 12. My new Dunlop D220STs are sitting in the garage. I'll be swapping over to them as soon as I get a chance. I've suffered with the 020s for over a year now, time to upgrade to the Dunlops.
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
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posted June 30, 2003 01:00 PM
posted June 30, 2003 01:13 PM
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posted July 29, 2003 04:15 AM
