posted June 13, 2003 08:12 PM
zx12 oil starvation question Ok, I've been racing my zx-12 for almost a year now, and my buddy has me thinking now. He races a ZX-11, and he said that the 11's were notorious for oil starvation when launching hard. Specifically, oil had trouble getting to the #2 & #4 bearings.
Is this still the case for the ZX-12? I don't remember anyone every mentioning it.
posted June 14, 2003 08:25 AM
It's not an issue of the oil "getting up to" the bearings, it's two things- the 11's tend to carry alot of oil in the head due to slow drain back and if the level is also low, the oil moves to the back on launch and the pump will suck air and shortly thereafter the bearings will fail. Same thing can happen on any engine even the 12, although the drainback situation is much better on the 12. And, yes you should be aware of this. Watch your oil level re: wheelies, and hard launches with a slick and or bar (street tire doesn't grip hard enough).
Doug
posted June 14, 2003 07:38 PM
Thanks for confirming that for me Doug & Vincent!!!
Doug, what's your definition of a hard launch with a bar and a slick? I'm running a bar and slick, but I haven't been able to get faster than a 1.55 60-ft.
Where is the point where I should be worried enough to go to a dry sump system?
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posted June 15, 2003 06:14 AM
When you have to hold your breath in to push your eyeballs back out into their sockets, now that's a hard launch. ____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted June 16, 2003 08:29 AM
Look at it this way.....
You're trying to acheive the hardest launch possible, the best 60ft time, right? So at some point you're going to get there. Somewhere along that journey to the perfect launch you're going to un port the pump. I can't tell you where that is.......
posted June 16, 2003 12:41 PM
So youre saying that the "graduation gift" for spectacular launches is bearing material in the oil??
Looks like Bergie is a PhD. then....lol
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posted June 16, 2003 12:53 PM
OK, I'm confused now.
Doug, are you saying that it's a good idea to throw a dry sump system on the bike to make sure that this doesn't happen? And, if you say that it's bound to happen eventually, why do you guys only make a dry sump oil pan for the ZX-11 and not the zx-12? I couldn't find one for the zx-12 on the Muzzys website.
posted June 19, 2003 06:53 AM
I'm saying it's a good idea to be aware of the limitations of the stock bike.
We have a dry sump on the Pro Mod,the Pro Stocker and had one on last year's Formula Superbike. Rickey's shootout bike has a Masterlube accumulator. We lost bearings (or narrowly avoided losing them) during the development of those bikes due to starvation either on launch or shutdown (shown by data acquisition) and developed the fixs that we now use. The dry sump is not on the web site yet but I hope to have photos done around the first of the month and then it will appear. You can call sales at Muzzys for pricing at this time. Keep in mind that the ZX-12 system is much more complex than the ZX-11 system becasue it requires a new, externally driven high RPM scavenge pump. The masterlube accumulator is a very reliable and effective low cost solution as well. I think Mad Mike has one, right Mike?
He can give you the low down on that.
Doug
posted June 19, 2003 07:16 AM
On DragBike section MM Talks about his 2 quart accumulator. He said Space was the only limitation but is does work. He was also going to post a picture and maybe the price also! This is like the Accumulator I had in the 2 Porschesthat kept the system pressure while the engine cooled down so the fuel system would have enough to restart!
posted June 19, 2003 07:28 AM
Yes I do have the system, and it seems to be a great Insurance policy and I had posted a little more about it on the Dragbikezone.com side, but the system is very simple. and it add's 2 quarts of oil into your oiling system. the way it works, it tie's into your main oil system, and as your oil pressure would drop, the oil in the tank is pressurized, it will feed into your system, in a case where you would unport the pickup and suck air, the system will force feed your oiling system the 2 quarts of oil in as quick as 5 seconds, so those are minor things that can happen that it will protect, also if you turn it on for a few seconds untill your oil light goes off, you can pre-lube your system also. and if you look at something major that happens as what happened to entropy(hope you dont mind being an example) when he broke his oil gear on his run, the system would have allowed the 2 quarts to feed in with no other oil pumping to the system. now I am not saying that he would not have had any damage, but what I am saying is his damage would have been less due to him finishing his run under full oil pressure, from the Accumulator, and then his oil light comeing on at the end of the track or right into the return road, where he could have shut it down very quickly! but that is my opinion on the system, with the only thing I do not like about it would be the size, the bottle is pretty big, so you have to find a good place to mount it, I am putting mine in my swing arm where most people mount a nitrous bottle. and if anyone else would like any other info, or I will try and take pictures here very soon.
Mad Mike
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