posted June 12, 2003 06:41 PM
Edited By: ZHooligan on 12 Jun 2003 19:59
I run Dunlop GP207s and 208s. And Dunlop slicks. I get them at a killer price and I have had zero problems and have had no problem with "running out of tire" with the 180. I'm not sure if you have ridden on a Dunlop GP (race tire) but they are different then the DOT tire. The front tire is very triangulat so when you decide to tip it in it essently falls of the point of the triangle. The shape makes it turn quick as the Michelin and Pirelli are more round and turn slower.
In our area Dunlop is at every race with a good selection, great pricing, top notch tire changing equipment etc. There is a very small set up for Michelins, their prices are stupid high, they have manual equipment and slow service unable to keep up with any kind of demand, the Pirelli guys are even smaller. The Pirelli prices are more rerasonable though.
As race tires go I have honestly found the Michelin to be a very sticky tire once warmed up. Takes about three laps to warm them up so if you are not using tire warmers you'll be way behind. More guys crash on Michelins in the first three laps then any other brand. Once warm they are sticky. The other issue with Michelin is that it is very sticky until the very moment it reaches it's point of no return. One moment your there the next moment you are down.
The Dunlop warms quickly and sticks very well and as the tire reaches the limits of the tires traction it will squirm and slide letting you know you are near the edge. The Pirelli honestly has almost as much stick as the Michelin and as it gets close to it's limit itwill squirm and slide to let you know your near the edge. As a racer I prefer the warning versus the crash! I also like the quicker warm up and the stupid high prices.
I run the Dunlop becasue I like it, used to it, love it, cheap and times often free for me. All things equal though I think the Pirelli is the one.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted June 12, 2003 06:57 PM
Edited By: jonwright on 12 Jun 2003 19:59
Well, here's a bit about the 'running out of tire' comment. When Lucky and I were running Cherahola I was right behind him (until that decreasing radius lefter caught me off guard).
He had been running 180's and I had one on my bike as well. That was the first ride he had his 190/55 on there.
He looked at his tire and was pissed off about his 2 mm of chicken strips. My tires were blistered to the edge.
By guaging the width of the tire and how it pokes out considering it's on a 6.5 in rim instead of a 6 in rim, you can see how right at the edge it's kinda pushed out. Side by side to my little Gixxer 600 with a 180 on the back you can see where the sides don't poke out like they do on my 12.
Hell, just eyeballing you can see where there's not much tire left. And with the stock pegs you can guage the lean agle by eyeballing as well that at that point you are at the edge of the tire. I've dragged the stock pads several times.
So, all that adds up to making me a bit uneasy about really pushing my 12 on the track with a 180. I can drag the pegs on my Gixxer and I'm comfortable doing that - at that point I know I need to not push much more. On the 12 I'm not sure I have any tire left!
By the way, this is more for a track day than racing. So Dunlop and the boys ain't gonna be there!
But I have heard on the track the same complaint about the H2's. No warning - you are on your ass.
Thinking about Diabolos (hear they are the same as the Metzler M1's) or BT/012.
posted June 12, 2003 07:01 PM
And if you are paying good money for a track day, you sure don't want to waste time warming up your tires for several laps and only have a few fun laps left. Was just at Road America today and everything ZH says held true. The Michelin guys were bitching and my Dunlop 208 GP A tires were good to go after one lap and no tire warmers. Plus they lasted two days. That's pretty much all I can ask for in a tire.
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
posted June 12, 2003 07:41 PM
Try the Diablo Corsa's. They are 20-30% cheaper than the Dunlop 208GP's and are meant for 70% track 30% street. I have them on my track bike and really like them. I wanted a sticky street tire because it warms up quicker at the track than a race tire. (Note the Diablo Corsas are not the Diablos - two different tires yet some dealers don't seem to know this. I had to special order mine)
posted June 12, 2003 08:44 PM
I can't say yet I haven't pushed them that far. So far they feel very stable in corners and they haven't let go . . yet. I have only one track day on them so far.
posted June 12, 2003 09:23 PM
They are easier to read then the Michelin. They will slide before going completely away.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted June 12, 2003 09:45 PM
Just place a small tube of glue just under the seat that way when the bike slide a bit just press and release the glue.. It will stick ...
posted June 13, 2003 08:00 AM
Edited By: Kirk on 13 Jun 2003 09:04
The Diablo is just Pirelli's tread pattern variation of the Metzeler Sportec M1. It's a good street tire, capable of track days, but it's not a race tire.
I've used the Dunlops, the Pirelli Supercorsa, and the Metzeler Rennsports in four different compounds and three different sizes.
As far as "running out of tire" goes, you'll drag hard parts with a 180 before you run off the edge of the tire for sure. The advantage of the 190/55 is that it lays down more rubber when banked over so that it lasts longer. It's harder to torch a 190/55 than it is a 180/55. The 190/55 may also provide a little better traction for the drive on corner exits, but at my limited skill level it really doesn't matter. I use the 190/55 because it lasts longer.
The Rennsport/Supercorsa warms up in under 1 lap (I don't have warmers yet). They last longer than the Dunlops. The front cups less than the Dunlops. Because of the steel belt in the front tire, they are more stable and more resistant to excessive bar-wagging. Between the Rennsport and the Supercorsa, I've found the Rennsport to cup less from heavy braking on a big bike on the road course.
I think the street compound of the Rennsport/Supercorsa makes a great track day tire. In most cases they are capable of lap times identical to the race compound tires, and they last WAY longer.
posted June 13, 2003 06:06 PM
Kirk, your talking Diablos. And yeah the Diablo is comparable to the Sportec but it's not comparable to the Diablo Corsa. The Diablo Corsa is a different tire. Its meant as a mostly track day tire without being a race tire. The Diablo Corsa is the replacement in their product line to the Evo Corsa which got great reviews in the Sportbike shoot out. Check out the web site:http://www.us.pirellimoto.com/tires/catalogo/dettaglio.asp?id=31 They actually call it a track day tire. You don't need to pay the price for a Rennsport and or Supercorsa to get a great trackday tire.
posted June 13, 2003 06:42 PM
Edited By: ZHooligan on 13 Jun 2003 22:04
On the racebike I ruun 16.5 slicks when ever possible for the extra contact area while leaned over. As always there are trade offs. But if you travel around the country most of the track records that are held by DOT or treaded tires are on 180's. Last year Larry Pegram and Micahel Barnes essentially set the track records on every track that the Formula USA circuit hit including Daytona. They did that on Pirelli's. And for the record they did it on Perellis you can buy not qualifier tires!
Kind of funny that Larry Pegram went extremely fast on Pirellis last year. Was offered Pirellisfree for his Dream Team Ducati Ride this year and refused them. He wanted Michelins and worked a deal on the Michelins. The deal is he pays for the tire (a reduced rate but still pays for them). Michelins has spent little if any money developing tires for the American racetracks so Pegram is doing the R&D for Michelin and paying them to do it. And if you stand on the pit wall in practice when he pulls in after running laps you will hear him scream "these tires are shit" I guess sometimes you getting what you wish for isn't all it's cracked up to be!!
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted June 13, 2003 07:14 PM
For someone doing track days, there are some great choices out there. Lots of great tires in every size you want. Race tires are *ahem* a bit more limited in size.
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted June 12, 2003 06:20 PM
posted June 12, 2003 06:41 PM
Edited By: 
