posted December 01, 2001 09:22 PM
Report from Seattle Motorcycle show We are at the hotel... just got back from the motorcycle show in Seattle...
first off thanks Muzzy and Doug Meyer for the tix! The show was great... We have (literally) hundereds of photos to share...
lots of impressive stuff this season... Most significant thing on the 12 (for me at least) is that they have completely changed the steering head setup... beyond that.. unless you are big into new bodywerk.. keep yer 00 or 01 12... they're just fine... trust me... save yer $$$..
what is VERY nice is the R1... Yamaha's finishing werk puts Kawasaki TO SHAME... SHAME ON YOU KAWI!!! WTF ARE YOU DOING???!!! (cheesey plastic fastners.. gimmee a break!)
anyways.... we have lots o photos... one heck of a wind/rain storm here... great margaritas!!
Hooked up with Ozzy! Hi! Good meeting you in person... swft... hope yer power gets turned back on soon...
oh. big thanks to http://www.hotwire.com for yet another AMAZING hotel room for peanuts!
Now tell me if this isn't "classic Seattle" or what? A homeless guy hands us "his card" for "his website" while we are in the liquor store!
Homeless with websites! WTF is going on now?!??!
Anyways... he claims it's great and I havent had a chance to visit it... but this is it.. (hey.. why not help the homeless and pay it a visit!) .. I forwarn you that it WAS infact a very stinky dirty homeless guy so please DONT spend any money fer christsakes!
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted December 03, 2001 04:54 AM
Kawasaki got a couple lambasting from my friends. The sequin 12 was 'in very poor taste' and the fact that they didn't have either World 600 SuperSport or AMA 600 SuperSport bike there (or a 'b' bike) there spoke worlds about their committment to sportbikes. The new '02 12 looks softer, less agressive in person, and the ZZR1200 looks like a big Katana. Ugh! ____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted December 03, 2001 09:43 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 3 Dec 2001 17:44
Just what are they smoking over at Kawi HQ?
At least they changed the steering head bearing setup for the '02 12..
Wow... they added an extra piece of plastic to the inner fairing... wow...
Yet MORE proof that the drugs at Kawi are far better than the ones we can get our hands on...
Yamaha shames Kawi with their BEAUTIFUL new R1
Comes complete with an undertail, shift light, and led tail lights... lovely!
Note Yamaha does not insult their customers by TRYING to provide REAL fasteners..
BMW shows innovation with this cool 650... gas tank is replaced by tankbag...
We liked the "IMAC" look of this bike..
Muzzy's booth...
Even Buell steps up to the plate with new innovation... gone is the giant "lung" on this new model..
Rim mounted disc brake! Kewl!
Ducati's new offering.. .also pretty cool..
Harley's very very cool looking new VROD
The prototype Bikeland/ ZX-12r Zone shirt
Even this old Harley was cooler than the new Kawi's
Well... what can I say.... PrincessKiwi said it best... "It almost looks like Kawi is having a firesale or something"... With the other manufacturers pushing towards the future.. one has to ask themselves, "Kawasaki, just WTF are you doing!??! "
DO they have an ace up their sleeve for next year? 10 new models perhaps? Or are they simply closing shop and giving in? Your guess is as good as mine... All I can say is that the new Busa, R1 and offerings from the other dealers, qualified by the excellent finishing and craftsmanship they are all providing make choosing a Kawasaki as my next new ride a slim-to-none chance....
The more you walk from booth to booth and see what other companies have to offer, the more you begin to scratch yer head...
I sure hope the have something secret planned because we thought it was just plain embarrassing...
posted December 03, 2001 02:31 PM
I don't know if I said the term, 'Fire sale'.
But, the show does make me question if Kawi really understands us, it's customers.
I saw the parts that Dino built to 'finish' the 12. The pieces for the under tail, the pieces for the gaps in the sides.
Maybe Kawi doesn't understand that we see those things???
Maybe they don't think we care?
Maybe most 12 owners don't .... maybe just the freeks here do....
Maybe they thought all they had to do to keep us happy, to 'amuse' us was to cover a 12 with sparkly shit, and we would forget about all those little thing we live with, when we live with a 12?
I left the show asking myself these things.
posted December 03, 2001 02:41 PM
actually you said "firesale" while you were having a little "drink" at that cajun place... perhaps that triggers yer memory
posted December 03, 2001 02:48 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 3 Dec 2001 14:49
New Bike This time of year, and even worse in February, I get new bike fever. It starts off with the rumors then the spy photos, then the bike shows(with all the large breasts), and next thing I know I'm working on the wife prepping her for the inevidable, a new baby bike due in the spring. Happens almost every year like clockwork. The debate over dumping $5000 into what I have and keeping it, or get somthing new. Now its looking like I need "the" new one.
Yesterday I felt a disturbance in the force...
And I liked it!
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted December 03, 2001 03:56 PM
Edited By: redelk on 3 Dec 2001 17:17
No surprises KMC is all "ga-ga" over the "Mean Streak vs. Road Warrior vs. V-Rod" war. The second tier (maybe THIRD after MX and Dual Sport) of bikes get NOTHING! Bring a "sparkly" that a crack whore's pimp wouldn't have, and we're supposed to be happy with that. Boy! I bet the Liberace 12R would really impress the guys on track day, huh? Why, it would... SHINE! I wonder if you can get some chrome plated frame sliders to go with that "bike" and where should I put the chandelier in my race trailer (a disco ball is too gauche - show some class, will ya?).
When one looks closer at the new Mean Streak, it starts to become apperent that there really wasn't that much R&D that went into it, either. A few 12 packs, some pizzas, a long weekend and... BINGO! A new cruiser. In some ways, more R&D went into the '02 12R then the Mean Streak. That ain't sayin' much.
How about that P7 750? A ZX-7R with 7 year old technology that has NOT stood the test of time.
Mr. Muzzy is correct (as usual) when his implies that the bean counters have taken over. The evidence is everywhere. Since KHI is in such a slump in their heavy industry divisions, which division is going to get hit with the red pen first? That's right... the consumer products division. The Suzuki/Kawasaki merger is just another example.
The merger isn't as bad as some would see it, but don't be surprised when there is no difference between a turn signal switch housing on a Mean Streak and a Bandit. Just another way to save pennies in the bastard child of KHI numerous divisions.
Still, don't give up hope yet. Mr. Muzzy also impies that this will be rectified soon. A ZX10R on the horizon? Some say as early as next June or July. Don't expect the fit and finish to be any better the KHI's previous sportbike offerings, but that won't matter. I'm sure the tail light will be real bright so they can still see you when your so far ahead of all those Gixxers and R1s.
posted December 03, 2001 04:31 PM
Red,
Your posts bust me up!LMFAO
I have to agree with Fish that the '02 R1 is one killer piece of machinery. I'll obviously never willingly part with my '01 silver beast, but I do still have to decide who will get my business when it comes time to add a second bike (most likely a corner carver) to the garage. If the guys at KHI don't stop bumpin' dicks in the R&D department, I will willingly take my money and spend it on the new R1 or GSX-R1000. Unless they can produce a 10R that changes my mind, and I'm getting a wee bit impatient waiting for that too.
posted December 03, 2001 05:39 PM
Thanks fish, great work......Christ I love that R1. Sure would be a nice little something under the tree!
Cheers,
Cliff
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted December 03, 2001 05:49 PM
I'd also wait before I get an R1 I had to edit my previous post about the possibility of a ZX10R, but looking at the R1s reminded me of a couple of other things.
First, the latest R1...
While at the Gap last September, Lucky and I visited several of the local dealers. While looking at the R1 info in one of the dealer's promotional books, I noticed a few, let's say, "curious" things about the new R1. The thing that stood out the most is that the R1 is still the only liter class sportbike without any "serious" form of ram air induction. The point was made even more obvious with the new "cool air inlets" under the front part of the tank.
IMHO, I think that this is a engineering "stop gap" move. It's Yamaha taking "baby steps" towards having ram air induction on the R1 and maybe even the R6. The new fuel delivery system (FI with sliders) is possibly another indicator that those "cool air inlets" will eventually become snorkels to some form of ram air. Just a thought.
Second, the new steering head nut of the 12R...
The big question is not what type of nut is on top, but what kind of bearings are underneath it... roller or ball? Will the additional 1.5 degrees of rake have a positive effect on the tightness of the steering head? A different type of bolt really wouldn't make that much of a difference, would it? Then again, if the steering head has a tendency to become loose, does that mean the nut has everthing to do with it and what the type of bearings are mean nothing?
To complicate matters even more , is it possible that neither the type of bearing or what kind of nut is on top of the triple clamp have any relationship to this problem? Could it be the retaining and lock rings under the upper triple clamp that's causing all the problems (they look the same in the show pic)? Could it be that ball bearings have more play in them then roller bearings? Is it the plastic carrier that they used for these ball bearings that are causing this?
It beats me on what the cause or the solution is . Much less, if it is even addressed with the '02 model. Still, that nut could just as easily be a bad sign. Instead of having a large allen wrench or socket to start the process of tightening the steering head, now you can just use your axle wrench or some big socket. I doubt that there's any difference in the bearings or retaining/ lock rings and it's just the cosmetics of a new nut design on top of the tripe clamp.
Remember, the bean counters still have a strangle hold on the consumer products division. There might be some serious retooling needed to get the frame to accommodate the taller races for roller bearings. Most likely, it's just the "same old thing".
posted December 07, 2001 04:43 AM
The show was great, I got to meet Fish and the Princess .
I personally don't like the new nut on the steering head bearing. It looks very unfinished, an allready big bitch about the 12 by many. The swing arm nuts have been changed as well. I have no idea why some steering head bearings are loosening, but I would not think the nut is the problem. Whether it reguires an allen wrench or a hex socket, the threads are what do the job, the tool only applies the torque. If one is concerned about the nut loosening, try a drop of light duty loctite. Or to verify if the nut is backing off, put an index mark on it with a felt pen. You should get your answer as to if the nut is really loosening.
There is a chance that the outer race of the bearings, the portion that fits into the frame is 1: not fully seated upon installation, or 2: the outer races flange that the balls run on is bending so as to let the clearences grow.
I wish I could inspect this failure and see what is happening, it shouldn't be to hard to diagnose. Possibley the plastic carrier is the culprit, but not the first place I would look, I believe it is a consequence of other factors.
I am probably totally wrong here,having not taken apart Fish's bike, but my 28yrs. as a millwright leads me to these conclusions. Hope they may be of some help. Ozzy.
posted December 08, 2001 01:33 AM
hmm, ya got ta meet them eh? sorry to hear that ozzy. u overcome the horror yet, or still findin a good shrink to help deal?
posted December 08, 2001 07:32 PM
Hey frEEk, the event was traumatic to say the least. Add to that the snow all over the place here, and no riding in the foreseeable future, I am definatley in need of more therapy than normal.
posted December 10, 2001 02:40 PM
I'd rather ride a baboons ass down the road Than ride that ZZR-1200! That's one UGLY Fucker!
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
posted December 10, 2001 03:25 PM
Harry..... You hit the nail on the head, a baboon's ass is what it looks like to me now that you mention it!! You are never lost for words are ya!!!
____________
BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
posted December 11, 2001 04:04 AM
I saw one of those UMF's at the prostar races It's even uglier in person.If you fucked an ugly girl would you ride her around in public? HELL NO! Just put her on her on the back of the ZZR-1200 , it would be a perfect match.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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posted December 01, 2001 09:22 PM
(cheesey plastic fastners.. gimmee a break!)
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posted December 03, 2001 04:54 AM
Edited By: 
posted December 03, 2001 03:56 PM
posted December 03, 2001 04:31 PM
posted December 03, 2001 05:49 PM
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posted December 09, 2001 01:03 AM
