moko
Novice Class
Posts: 75
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posted May 28, 2014 11:54 AM
614hp ZX12R
Bigcc racing 614hp
http://www.bigccracing.com/content/item.asp?item=111
  
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted May 28, 2014 06:45 PM
THAT IS FUCKING CRAZY.i....T WILL NEED A 15" WIDE SLICK TO HOOK UP
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 28, 2014 08:26 PM
 Edited By: Gunner on 29 May 2014 04:28
Yea there's a post already on here that BigCC posted back when they done the dyno pulls on that thing. Surprisingly enough the guy at BigCC said some very nice things about the 12R motor and it's ability to make power under boost... He even said the bottom end is much stronger than the 14 design.. I'm sure the 14 clutch basket is miles stronger than the 12R's but he was talking about the rest of the lower end..
I'll say this time and time again the 12R motors were given up on far too early by most everyone except a very small number of die hard believers in the motor design. There was NEVER a properly built aspirated motor done by anyone ever. Sure there were some that kept spending money doing the same shit over and over again and again expecting a different outcome only to find doing that always results in the same end result. The 12R will at some point find it's way to the respect it deserved and never got. Time always has a way of sorting these things out and the true cream sooner or later finds it's way to the top..
I'm not bad mouthing the 14R for those that like to beat the 14R tom tom drum. It is without doubt the meanest stock motor ever bolted between two wheels from any factory up to this point in history.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 29, 2014 07:17 PM
quote:
I'll say this time and time again the 12R motors were given up on far too early by most everyone except a very small number of die hard believers in the motor design. There was NEVER a properly built aspirated motor done by anyone ever.
we're working on a new design 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 29, 2014 09:28 PM
quote:
quote:
I'll say this time and time again the 12R motors were given up on far too early by most everyone except a very small number of die hard believers in the motor design. There was NEVER a properly built aspirated motor done by anyone ever.
we're working on a new design
So am I  Been working on the thing for the better part of 3 years..
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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FlaminRoo
Novice Class
Posts: 76
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posted May 30, 2014 03:00 AM
I realize that all dyno figgers vary,, but, what is the best Horspower number anyone has got from a Naturally Aspirated ZX12R motor,?,, and at what engine cc, ?,,,,
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 30, 2014 02:39 PM
The most I know about is Karl's old 1427cc motor... It made something like 240's ?? But it never stayed together long enough to say whether it would have lived at that level. His routine was run the thing and take it apart and inspect for signs of failure, make changes and do it all again... Making power from putting the largest piston and stroke you can fit into a motor isn't always the wisest move to make. Every engine builder has their own ideas what works best based on their own past experience.
I feel Kawasaki showed everyone how the 12R motor needed to be built from the get go. It was 100cc smaller than the Busa yet made more power CC for CC up to the point where the Busa simply swallowed the 12R whole within it's bores.. But most builders designed their 12R build much in the same way everyone builds a Busa and the results were never great. Rod ratio and offset chambers were both HUGE factors when stroking the 12R and the more you stroked the thing the more you took away what made it great in the first place. But I'm not here to argue about this crap and continued discussion will result in nothing other than just that.. As I said my experiences lead me to think the way I do about this and the guys that went the huge stroke and bore path were led that way from something they seen or thought may work.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 30, 2014 03:35 PM
it made 241-242 on Brocks dyno at a very rich afr after going to CMG. i believe the number was 11.1:1 or 11.2:1. it leaned out with ram air (over 220mph ) to 13.3:1 and i gave it about 5% more fuel to get it where it needed to be. its easily making over 250 hp, but its not a long lived motor. we are looking at ways to make it live, and when time and money allows, we feel we have a very good combo to try that will not only make more hp but be reliable.
working on the 1348 eh gunner?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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FlaminRoo
Novice Class
Posts: 76
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posted May 30, 2014 04:32 PM
Edited By: FlaminRoo on 31 May 2014 00:33
i agree with your reasoning there Gunner,,
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted May 31, 2014 06:22 AM
Nearly 4x the HP of a stocker. Mama mia.....
High phaiiii!!!!
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted June 05, 2014 11:34 PM
Well remember what Muzzy did with the Promod bike? It was ZX12R powered. How much horsepower did that thing make to run 6.80's, and I'm sure there was more in it. Nitrous guys bitched because it was so fast so they stopped racing. Fuck that, either keep up or GTFO..
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 06, 2014 02:35 PM
easily over 500, Doug Rays made 560 at 32 psi and it was a very similar build. not intercooled like the big cc bike either (at 36 psi).
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted June 07, 2014 02:51 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 7 Jun 2014 22:55
You DO NOT NEED an intercooler if you use alcohol..... If I were building a track only bike where I didn't have to worry about finding a gas station with an alcohol pump ( don't exist past E85) It would be running on methanol... Crank up the boost and pile in the compression WITHOUT WORRY
In my business I deal with all the top ProMod and ProExtreme car teams all using wither a blower motor or a turbo motor.. NONE are on gas anymore because of the huge advantaged of alcohol over gas in a super charged application ...
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 08, 2014 05:31 AM
my setup last yr was running 85% methanol 15% pump gas, like e85, but the better form of alchy. i had higher cr than most turbo setups, no intercooler and it loved it. experimenting with some revisions this yr.
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted June 08, 2014 01:18 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 8 Jun 2014 21:18
I got customers that have removed intercooler systems that they had a fortune invested in building and running over several seasons, switched to Methanol and NEVER LOOKED BACK! It requires a much updated fuel system to cover the volume but for a race ANYTHING there's no better fuel. Since it releases less energy per equal volumes than gasoline it requires a lot more of it to achieve the same power levels. But what it lacks there it more than makes up in stability and cooling effect on the charge. Especially for a motorcycle the use of alcohol simplifies the whole turbo system once you cover the fuel volume issues.
If there is one single drawback that I HATE about alcohol as a fuel it's the moister it causes in the oil.. There's just not a great solution for that. I can't get past being flipped out over milky looking oil in my pan. That's just not normal or acceptable to me. I have designed and built a system for some of my customers to remove that moister from their oil but we're getting back to complexity again. There's no free lunch
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 12, 2014 02:12 PM
thats why i was changing my oil after every wknd, sucks, but good for the track side bonfires lol
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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