worm~hole
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posted May 10, 2003 08:28 AM
HELP ME!!! I'M BLEEDING!!!!
...my brakes, that is...just to referesh my memory, since I'm chaging out the fluid (fronts only)as well (since its such a tiny system), does it matter which caliper I bleed first?...thanks!
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
  
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bfly
Expert Class
Posts: 188
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posted May 10, 2003 08:48 AM
bleed the master then gravity bleed both calipers then do a few pumps then done no more then 15 min. thats it you dont do like me and breack of the head of one bolt:}
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OZZY
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posted May 10, 2003 06:27 PM
Buy a Mity-Vac and do it the easy way!
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worm~hole
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posted May 10, 2003 10:08 PM
...I have a mightyvac and it sucks...I use the simple motopro dealie and just bleed and flush...(damn...that sounds really disgusting!)
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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worm~hole
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posted May 13, 2003 06:02 AM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 13 May 2003 07:10
...ok...I give up...I've used the MotionPro bleeder...still sponge-bobish...so I used the MightyVac..again, still sponge-bobish...I'm actually using a whole bottle of fluid as I bleed and replenish the reservoir...the brake lever doesn't have that solid feel...the bike stops alright, but the lever feels 'spongey' or 'spongie' or however you spell that word...
...when I open the bleeder valve (I started with the right-side), bigger bubbles pass through then very, very tiny ones (I think its a leak-thru from the bleeder valve/plastic hose connection)...I replenish the fluid (never let it run dry) and the tiny bubbles continue until I've use up the whole bottle of DOT4 (which comes out as clean as it went in)...
...I haven't tried VH's method yet, but I thought the MightyVac would eliminate that procedure...what gives???????...I repeat: THE BIKE STOPS FINE BUT I CAN PULL THE LEVER TO THE HANDLEBAR (while the bike is stationary!) WITH SOME EFFORT...I've install new HH pads...I guess I'll have to try the VH way, but I'm running out of time...ddpete3 and I are heading out tomorrow morning to Yosemite and Sequoia for the 2nd Annual Nano Birthday Motorcycle Adventure...
...this may sound stupid, but is this normal?...I ask this question cuz' ddpete3 just got his bike serviced by a shop and his lever feels very firm and I cannot bring the lever to the handlebar...any suggestions besides the obvious? (aka VH method)...thanks!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 13, 2003 06:38 AM
Now you know why this information is needed! Sometimes air gets trapped and this is the only way "I" know to get it out! First try it for 3 hours, sometimes this is enough. I like the duct tape because each wrap, you can get it tighter than the last wrap! My question is WHY are you so reluctant to give this 3 hours? I am sure you have spent all day already! (No one "I think" Hates me that much  that they will not try something because I suggested and the possibility it works!)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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worm~hole
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posted May 13, 2003 08:11 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 13 May 2003 09:29
Hey Vincent...I thought I needed 24 hours to do your method...OK, I'll give it 12HRS since I'll be at work anyway, however, there's no way for me to monitor the bubbles. You're right, I spent a bunch of time on it already 'cuz I'm still learning.' 
..so let me get this correct: 1)I pump the brake lever several times to get pressure and hold it in the squeezed position, 2) I wrap duct tape around the lever and the handbar to maintain that squeeze, 3) three to twelve hours later, I remove the tape and SLOWLY release the lever.
The only question left is: Do I remove the reservoir cap and leave it off during this procedure? I would think that I would need to since that's where the air is going to escape. Yes? No?
Thanks!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 13, 2003 08:42 AM
Do "Nothing else" Also fold over the first 6 inches of tape so it will not stick to the hand grip and lever. Pump up the Brake lever and fast and hard as you can to get the most lever possible! The word on time was "Overnight" which to me means longest 8 to 12 hours! I have seen excellent results in 3 to 4 hours! Also since you are usually dying to see what is going on and how you are doing, I would "Check" in 3 to 4 hours and most of the time, the lever is as hard as your Johnson in the park on Prom night!
If you remove it on the 3 to 4 hours and have good results, then do it again for as long as possible to get 100%! Please do not ask me why or exactly how this works, it is a gift I do not question! Trust me, this works 99.99% of the time compared to the Bleeders and vacs working 50 to 75% of the time, but you must start somewhere! I am really glad I did this thread, you have no idea of how much mail and thanks I have received!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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worm~hole
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Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted May 13, 2003 09:31 AM
Mr. Hill...I'm still not clear (and you guys in the peanut gallery SHUT THE F*CK UP!!! )...do I leave the reservoir cap on?...I do know that the fluid level was on-spec when I sealed it up...the lever is taped to the grip as I type...the lever is making contact with the grip, so its as close as it'll ever get...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 13, 2003 11:12 AM
Leave the cap on tight! The bladder inside allows for the expansion of any trapped air and allows the fluid to go into the lines when finished! In a few Hours, hold the Lever in and remove the tape (Carefully so you can use it again) and slowly release the lever. Then to do even better, fan the lever with the flat of your hand to "Knock Out" any remaining trapped air and then see where you are! You should have a fairly good lever, but will need one more operation to be 100%. You need to be able to get to a hard point before the bar, to really get "ALL" of the air out! Right now, it is about 3 PM EST SO if you have had this taped since 10:30 West coast time, in 2 hours, you are ready for the first check! I will look here around 5 PM EST to see how the first try went! My hope is that you will be 100% better off and almost perfect and just need the last 3 hours to get the remaining 1 or 2 bubbles of air!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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worm~hole
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Posts: 10623
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posted May 13, 2003 11:33 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 13 May 2003 12:35
Thanks VH!...I'm off to work and its been 2hrs since...I'm not going to be around to check it in 1hr, but I'll be back in 10~11hrs to check it...is that hard on the bladder?...I'll do as you instructed...then I'll re-do it and it'll hold for another 6~8 before ddpete3 and I take off for Yosemite...that means I'll post the 1st result at about 2a.m. my time and again at 9~10a.m. before we take off...thanks again!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 13, 2003 12:36 PM
Easier than a fart into the seat at the Movie theatre! All it is going to do is add a tiny amount of air into the reservoir which will be hardly noticed! Make sure you check the fluid level with the Master Cylinder level to the ground before you do the final check! You should be 99+% good when you come home tonight and the last deal will make it 100%
If you ever get the urge to do this again, For my benefit, stay away from BFlys method! You are right because the Screw threads allow air to suck back in! I take the cap off and using a soft paper towel, wipe the mastercylinder dry / clean. Then I fill the squirt can full and do what I said! If you do not have a squirt can, may I suggest filling the mastercylinder and putting the cap back on then the right one first, Pump up the lever and crack open the bleed valve and let a little dirty fluid out and tighten it before the lever hits the bar. Taking your time, it will only take 3 or 4 times until you see clean fluid! Refill the mastercylinder and do the other side!
This way is not Techinical or High tech, but it keeps the air out of the system and leaves you with working brakes! (Because you never stopped having them!)
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worm~hole
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Posts: 10623
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posted May 13, 2003 11:50 PM
...well...its 0045 hours (9 1/2 hours later) and I just took off the tape...released it slowly...and....still the same  ...checked the banjos, calipers, reservoir cap, lines...tight and no leaks anywhere...pumped it up and doing it again...I'll check and remove in five hours...by the way, these are the Muzzy braided lines that eliminate the T-fitting at the head...crossing my fingers and toes...hell, I'm crossing my eyes as well....
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 14, 2003 04:25 AM
WH, There was another person that had a simular problem! He found air trapped in the Banjo bolt at the Master Cylinder! Wrap the area with some paper towel and pump up the lever and crack open the nut and shut it right away! The Check your lever! A lot of air can be trapped in the Brake lines specially if they do not have smooth fittings at the end of them!
If the Air is there, the problem will go away immediately! So Pump of the lever and with a good pad of paper towel wrapped around the the Bolt and end of lines at the mastercylinder and quickly open and close! You may want to do the same thing at each caliper, one at a time and very quickly! Let me know!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
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posted May 14, 2003 04:31 AM
Look at what "Norty" Had to say! He mounted the MC to another handle bar and pumped the lever up and held the assembly so that the Resivoir was the High Part!
http://www.labusas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32660
This must do it! Let me know! Brakes can be a Bit-h. I have spent entire nights dealing with these type of problems and this was my savior! I am pulling for you!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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worm~hole
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posted May 14, 2003 05:35 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 14 May 2003 06:42
VH...its 0630 hrs and I just unwrapped the lever...same thing, still spongey
...looks like the next step is to bleed the banjos as instructed...but first I gotta take my furry beast to the 'pet resort'...ddpete3's on his way up and I haven't packed yet...AAAARRRRRGGHHH!!!!...the saga continues...see you guys in a couple of hours....
...I just read Norty's post...funny, I instinctively turned the handlebar 'left' to keep the reservoir 'higher'...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 14, 2003 06:49 AM
His deal was to more or less have the MC sort of hanging with the banjo's at the bottom and the ball of the lever at the top! I thought about this on the way to work and thought of this, Take the correct size allen and put it in the allen bolt that holds the handle bar in place. Tap it a few times and remove the bolt and slip out the handle bar. With the lever taped, hold the lever by the weight and tap lightly on the banjo's then do it with the lever not taped, then see if you have lever hardness?? The good news is these things always take all of the available time you have and then get fixed. Since you are now out of time, it should be over within 30 minutes after you get back! ONE QUESTION I HAVE BEEN DYING TO ASK, YOU DID NOT REPLACE YOUR BRAKE PADS, DID YOU?? iF YOU DID, THEN YOU SHOULD BE OK BECAUSE THEY SIT SO UNEVENLY IT MAKES THE LEVER SPONGY!
(Had a flat, ran over a piece of Pot metal grill and went right into the side of the tire. Had a rusty spare with a good tire and was only 5 minutes late. I am normally 5 to 10 minutes late, went in early )
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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n da zone
Expert Class
Posts: 215
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posted May 15, 2003 08:42 AM
If you determine that the system is not leaking, and there is not air, then the next step is to rebuild the master cylinder.
I had the brass sleeve in a master cylinder pit a little bit once, hardly noticeable, but enough to shred little tiny pieces off the rubber boots in the cylinder. This caused a spongy feel. I rebuilt the cylinder which fixed the immediate problem .... I eventually had to replace the whole cylinder assembly, as you can't rebore or resurface the bore.
There's not much more wormy can do at this point.
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VincentHill
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posted May 15, 2003 09:20 AM
Excellent point. As far as I know, his brakes were working 100% BEFORE THE LINE CHANGE. So I hope that was not his problem. I really wished he would have made that last post before he left!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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worm~hole
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posted May 19, 2003 07:39 PM
...VH (and all), thanks for the info...yes, I replaced the pads and fluid...I managed to bleed the banjo at the MC before we left on the trip...it felt 'better'...the lever actually 'firmed up' a little during the trip...didn't get to test any emergency-type braking, but the fronts felt fine...I'm going to re-do the entire process later this week along with banjo bleeding at the MC, as well as at the calipers to see what happens...man, I hope I don't have to rebuild the MC or buy a new one ...thanks again!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
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posted May 21, 2003 05:05 AM
WH, glad you are back. I thought if you had replaced the pads that as they seated in, the lever would get better. Bleed the MC Banjo bolts at the MC and tape the Lever again and you will get your lever "HARD"
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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worm~hole
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Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted May 21, 2003 07:04 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 21 May 2003 08:05
...will DO!...and thanks again!...there's a track-day coming up this Sunday and if I go, I want the brakes to be solid and hard...VIAGRA-PLUS HARD
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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vozizm
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posted December 02, 2006 06:38 AM
Will be trying this today!
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted December 02, 2006 12:45 PM
Vince is the man on his brake tricks... I have told friends about his way to do it many times...
MM
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vozizm
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posted December 02, 2006 08:15 PM
well..
I have not done it... I installed pro lite rotors and did not like the colors..so i removed and sprayed them black... Will reinstall tomm then try above trick...
Will the same method work on rear ?
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