frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 12, 2013 10:15 PM
Eating chains
I seem to go through chains way too quickly. And I buy the DID ZVX Gold or whatever they're called, top spec chains. The last couple chains I was REAL good about giving them chain wax on schedule (every 4 or 500 miles) but still they seem to have a couple good tight links within a year (like 5000 miles).
Anyone find the 12 going thru more chains or am I just doing something wrong?
   
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 12, 2013 10:38 PM
My chains tend to last more than I ride with them. Normally change them between 30k km (20k miles) if there is a longer trip coming. If just riding local I go longer. Never actually have any trouble with the chain just don't want it to go bad when I'm 2k miles from home... So 5k miles sounds like something is wrong...
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 13, 2013 02:05 PM
yeah i don't get it at all. 10 years ago i wouldnt lube em often so i understand then. but why now? only thing that comes to mind is I'm parked outside on a gravel driveway and frequently riding thru dirty environments.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted August 14, 2013 12:17 AM
Strange, I'm still on stock chain on my 00 12R. Granted it only has 15 miles on it though..
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 14, 2013 12:03 PM
chain too tight?
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 14, 2013 01:06 PM
nope. slack adjusted properly. if anything it tends to run a bit loose.
Only one down in front so not being super hard on the small radius.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted August 15, 2013 12:13 AM
I would imagine your lubrication is timely. I always lube the chain AFTER I get back from riding while the chain is still warm.. That way its ready to go the next time..
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 15, 2013 02:54 PM
 Edited By: Gunner on 15 Aug 2013 22:54
WOW! I haven't worn out a chain in years and all I ever use is WD40. However my chain and sprocket maintenance is just this side of insane I suppose. I clean between the rollers on the inside with Q Tips before putting just a few drops on every pin one pin at a time on both sides of the chain.. If I really think it needs attention I take it off and soak it in WD40 and clean it with a brush. Then hang it for a few days to let the excess drip off. If you don't do the last part you will get covered up with WD40.. Grit is the death of all chains.. Nothing can hardly stick to the WD40 like it can chain lubes. There's many opinions about using WD40 but I go by my own results and it's the best system I've used yet.
This gets done about every 500 miles..
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 16, 2013 03:14 AM
I've found the best way to "clean" your chain is riding fast. When you stay in the region of 250+ kph (155+ MPH) the dirt goes away by it self... And it's fun cleaning the chain too 
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted August 16, 2013 03:01 PM
Get a cheap aluminium cooking pan somewhere and some kerosene and decent tooth brush. If you have a clip type master link take the chain off and clean it spotless. If you have a permanent link put the pan under the chain between the sprockets and scrub the heck out of it. Get all that "chainwax" off. Dry it good and put one drop of ( I use Mobil 1 or Amsoil 10-40 motor oil) on each o-ring on both sides of the chain. Wipe it down good and go for a ride. Oil will fling off a lot easier than chain lubes but it is also a lot easier to clean off your rim and whatever else it gets on. WD 40 is great for this ( and cleaning your chain ) Don't know if you remember but in 2000 I bought a new Hayabusa and a new ZX12R. After many back to back comparisons of my own ( riding the same loops back to back on both bikes ) I sold the Busa and bought another new 12R that my wife rode. We tried chain lube on hers and put them up on stands side by side. Spinning the rear wheels by hand was a real eye opener. The resistance of the chain lube compared to the oil will blow you away. And the faster you go the more resistance there is. ( rising rate, not linear ) You will get better fuel milage, your chain will last longer and the chain and mess will be much easeir to clean up. You will have to oil the chain more often but the results are well worth it. I promise... 
Most all chain manufacturers dont recommend chain lubes. They say that even the propellent in the can will damage rubber o-rings. They recommend cleaning your chain with kerosene and lubing it with gear oil.
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted August 16, 2013 03:11 PM
quote:
WOW! I haven't worn out a chain in years and all I ever use is WD40. However my chain and sprocket maintenance is just this side of insane I suppose. I clean between the rollers on the inside with Q Tips before putting just a few drops on every pin one pin at a time on both sides of the chain.. If I really think it needs attention I take it off and soak it in WD40 and clean it with a brush. Then hang it for a few days to let the excess drip off. If you don't do the last part you will get covered up with WD40.. Grit is the death of all chains.. Nothing can hardly stick to the WD40 like it can chain lubes. There's many opinions about using WD40 but I go by my own results and it's the best system I've used yet.
This gets done about every 500 miles..
Same idea just different products. Grit doesn't stick to wd40 ( like said above ) or oil like it does chain lube. When you buy your chain the pins are packed with lube and the o rings seal that in. Keeping the o rings soft and pliable ( wd40, oil or gear lube ) will give you long life. Gear oil stinks....... And like Gunner said frequency is all important.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 16, 2013 04:15 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 17 Aug 2013 00:24
quote:
Get a cheap aluminium cooking pan somewhere and some kerosene and decent tooth brush. If you have a clip type master link take the chain off and clean it spotless. If you have a permanent link put the pan under the chain between the sprockets and scrub the heck out of it. Get all that "chainwax" off. Dry it good and put one drop of ( I use Mobil 1 or Amsoil 10-40 motor oil) on each o-ring on both sides of the chain. Wipe it down good and go for a ride. Oil will fling off a lot easier than chain lubes but it is also a lot easier to clean off your rim and whatever else it gets on. WD 40 is great for this ( and cleaning your chain ) Don't know if you remember but in 2000 I bought a new Hayabusa and a new ZX12R. After many back to back comparisons of my own ( riding the same loops back to back on both bikes ) I sold the Busa and bought another new 12R that my wife rode. We tried chain lube on hers and put them up on stands side by side. Spinning the rear wheels by hand was a real eye opener. The resistance of the chain lube compared to the oil will blow you away. And the faster you go the more resistance there is. ( rising rate, not linear ) You will get better fuel milage, your chain will last longer and the chain and mess will be much easeir to clean up. You will have to oil the chain more often but the results are well worth it. I promise...
Most all chain manufacturers dont recommend chain lubes. They say that even the propellent in the can will damage rubber o-rings. They recommend cleaning your chain with kerosene and lubing it with gear oil.
Most people don't understand how a chain and sprockets are designed to work. All that excessive lube slathered all over the place does NOTHING but gather grit that will destroy your chain and sprockets.. If a river carved out the Grand Canyon all by it's lonesome it's easy to acknowledge that grit on a chain can eat up the chain and the sprockets. I always spend a lot of time with every motorcycle I own making it roll free. There's nothing I like more than going to the top of the mountain and coast racing people.. Motor off and bike in neutral and just enough kick to keep it upright then tuck in and race.. I've never been beat doing that because I spend a ton of time looking for ways to help the bike roll free. I touch every part of the equation right down to machining the wheel spacers so they barely touch the wheel seal and in some cases if I'm certain I won't get caught in the rain I put in a set that don't even touch the seals. It's all the little stuff that's free to do that will turn into HUGE gains over the other 98% that don't have a clue how to work on anything.. ALSO AND THIS IS HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The axle nut needs to be tightened to the manufactures specification and NOTHING more or less!!! This is vital to the bearings spinning free.. The spacer that's located between the wheel bearings inside the wheel's hub is a bit too long and the bearings WILL NOT spin free until it's compressed! Believe it or not Kawasaki takes all this into consideration.. Over tightening the axle nut will actually crush the bearings. So if you don't have a torque wrench GET ONE before screwing with your axle nut.. I experimented quite a bit before I figured out the factory had taken the crush factor into count when they issued a torque spec it really is that vital to do this right! Worn sprockets have deformed teeth resulting in the motor having to pull the chain off the sprocket instead of the chain smoothly rolling off as it should. None of this is hard to do and the benefits all add up to a fast motorcycle that never loses a race. There's tons of little things that pay big dividends when added together. Having brake calipers that don't retract the pads off the rotors or slightly warped rotors will also slow you right down. As my old friend and mentor Bill Hahn Sr use to tell me " Son nothing is more important than keeping up you maintenance! He was and still is many years after his death the most brilliant man I have been privileged to call my friend. His knowledge went beyond what normal men can imagine. These things I'm sharing with everyone may seem small and insignificant but all added together they are HUGE! Seriously when my bike is on the stand in neutral when you start the motor the rear wheel will spin 20mph IN NEUTRAL!!! What that tells you is this.. It rolls so free that the oil was more than enough to lock the clutch plates together and spin the rear wheel even in neutral.. Once the oil was hot it wouldn't do that anymore but most everyone else's shit won't even spin the rear wheel as I described at all! Motor off in neutral up on the stand I can give the wheel a kick with my foot and nothing more and the thing will sit there spinning for a good 2 minutes sounding like a ten speed bicycle free spinning..
One last thing if I haven't mentioned this yet.. If it's a customer's bike I'm dealing with and the drive line is all gritted up I'll remove the chain and soak it in a bucket of WD40 over night and then the next day start cleaning it with a tooth brush from end to end..If the sprockets are damaged or deformed in any way REPLACE THEM with quality sprockets not the cheapest one you can find. Always pay the extra for the Hard anodized option when buying aluminum sprockets. Fixing a chain can take several hours but it's that vital to the end product that it must be done. I won't even get into the topic of removing the O rings for even more free rolling. Doing this means you can NOT ride in the rain so it's best to have a back up chain and keep the modified one for racing purposes on sunny days.. The difference is worth the trouble to remove the O rings. How fast you are is directly tied to how much work you're willing to put into going fast.
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Lou_ZX12R
Expert Class
One Day at a Time
Posts: 196
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posted August 16, 2013 04:53 PM
great info Gunner, While I do take time to care for the chain & sprockets I do not go nearly to the depth you do. I clean & lube my chain between 500 ~750 miles with wd40, always before parking it for the night and I cover the rear wheel so any oil drips don't end up on the tire. I usually change it not because it needs it but because I'm doing something else and it's easy at that point. On the 12r I changed the chain for the first time when I did the rear bearings and that was the same time I did the 3rd set of tires (apprx 15K miles). So far with 34K miles The bike is on it's third chain and sprockets. It's worked out well for me and I hate to let anything get to the point that changing maintenance parts is a need now type job.
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2000 ZX12R 40shot
2012 ZX14R
2009 Concours 14
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 18, 2013 11:19 AM
I'm a WD-40 proponent and have been for many, many years. Keep it clean and spray it with WD-40 before each ride and you'll be good to go.
IMO all the expensive chains lubes are good for is attracting dirt and grime and making your rear wheel filthy. I haven't used PJ-1 or the like in 15 years.
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Gunner
Needs a life
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posted August 21, 2013 11:40 PM
Even though I'm guilty of this myself Aluminum rear sprockets can and does rob power from your motorcycle after just a few hundred miles depending on how hard the rider is on his drive line. Aluminum sprocket teeth deform and cause the chain to not roll off the deformed teeth like a new sprocket does. We all use Aluminum sprockets since we see all our favorite racers running them right? Good enough for them it's plenty good enough for my purposes is how we all tend to think. But what we don't realize is they replace chains and sprockets constantly to keep all the components working at their best. Those aluminum center with steel teeth sprockets are the best solution to the problem. The steel teeth don't deform like the aluminum and the chain will roll off the tooth instead of being pulled off the tooth because the tooth geometry has been deformed by the chain rollers. Chain lube that gathers and holds grit on the chain will cause the process to speed up considerably.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted August 22, 2013 01:39 PM
All this great info we put in this thread..........did you give our suggestions a try freak?
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted August 22, 2013 01:40 PM
frEEk, sorry for the typo.......
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 26, 2013 09:47 PM
no chance yet. gotta get new chain first. too late for the current chain i'm pretty sure.
i'm kinda tempted by the WD40 idea, even tho it shouldn't be good (solvent and all). but i'm sure sick of the mess from chain wax.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 28, 2013 03:51 PM
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. :-)
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